The BBB thread

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by dossa5, May 27, 2016.

  1. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Let us consider the methods of racers living with recent regulations.
    If courses were matched to ski sidecut every race would be a technical competition, as boring as Formula One.
    Straighter skis have been mandated, so extreme angles are the only way to make them bend correctly.
    I laff at recreational skiers using extreme angulation to copy the racers. Inclination is the way to go...
     
  2. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Oboy. The Anticipation Machine is go (in very rough construction) .
    Based on the Ab Circle Pro (once cost 280 dollars here, still available in Europe as the Ab Ring Pro for 100 dollars), secondhand cost from 5 to 30 dollars.

    Decided not to use Jennifer for the instruction video, as she doesn't even ski.
    I will star myself, maybe.
    Need T shirt:
    "Where
    Is
    Julian
    Assange?"
     
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  3. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Nothing new under the sun. Or on the snow. Ten years ago I would teach the "Figure Eight Move"
    Bob Barnes 2016 calls it the "Infinity Move".
    Important for "Ski in 3 Days"
     
  4. KL.

    KL. Dedicated Member

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    The Infinity shape, reflects the hand movement with both hands moving together (ie. as the outside hand rotates inward (becomes inside), the (finished) inside hand rotates outward (becomes outside) and so on)
     
  5. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Is good. This brings the upper body to the radically changed inclination needed for the new turn.
    A smooth Flow Turn results.
    Ten minutes on the Anticipation Machine, however, gets the timing right (just before transition) for the OPPOSITE (inside arm forward) rotation windup stopping.
    (This is a separate to your hand rotation.)
    In present ski technique this is only used to "get you over the hump" of a top turn.
    In Bel technique it is used continuously for everything from beginner plough turn to faster racing transitions. :)
     
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  6. KL.

    KL. Dedicated Member

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    yes, flow/drive then flow/transition (very, very early anticipation), and so on...
     
  7. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Well. The more "advanced" the skier, the more time needed to master the Machine.
    This seems counter intuitive.
    But they always initially use the Chubby Checker knee swing to the exclusion of anything else.
    An alternative trainer might be the Robo Bull, The arm is where it is at.
     
  8. KL.

    KL. Dedicated Member

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    [​IMG]
    Actually, the Bow Tie shape, more accurately reflects the hand movement while both hands moving synchronously together (ie. as the outside hand rotates inward (becomes inside), the (finished) inside hand rotates outward (becomes outside) and so on)
     
  9. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    I see it!
    While I know quite a few one leg skiers, (nobody can tell that the below knee amputees are not whole, although they might wonder at the extra detuning on one ski ), I have not even heard of a one arm bull rider.
    Looking in one dimension only, the rotation of the bull must be anticipated and compensated for by similar rotation and stopping of the balance arm.
    No sign of foot or knee steering there! :wave::wave::wave:
     
  10. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Always remembering the basics of Chi Skiing, which is deeply rooted in Bel Surfskiing:
    "Small supported by the large. Use big muscles for small jobs
    Your core muscles work your hips and shoulders
    Your hips and shoulders move your arms and legs
    Your arms and legs move your wrists and ankles
    Your wrists and ankles move your fingers and toes
    None of these should be out of order or they will cost you energy."
     
  11. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    Waist steering ....

     
  12. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Brittney is not there for giggles.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    But sometimes she forgets the Basic Bel: "Your shoulders must always be ahead of your hips!"
     
  14. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Ron LeMaster has coined the term "Super Stivot" to describe the Ligeti Move. This can be done before a standard stivot, which is achieved by a lateral pushoff from the old outside ski.
     
  15. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Do the French slavishly follow the locked up American style?
    Not in Quebec, where they are making tentative efforts to emulate Bel/KL.
     
  16. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    How to get this anticipation style into telemark turns?
    One Quebec drill involves keeping the arms and hands still while you rotate the shoulders.
    (Like somebody said " The French do it different" )
     
  17. stansi

    stansi Dedicated Member
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    After two hundred and seventeen posts....... Now You've caught My interest.
     
    #218 stansi, Dec 15, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  18. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    But it will pass :wave:
    You see, my Anticipation Machine requires you to NOT bend your knees much.
    Even then, it is quite dangerous at it's present state of development.
    But not as exhausting as this device which probably just demonstrates how much easier it is to drop into a turn....
     
  19. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    [​IMG]
    The Abcircle in it's unmodified (safe) configuration. Most are in good repair as rider's knees wore out rapidly.
     
  20. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Naturally, I have examined every ski training machine in the world looking for prior art.
    There are no anticipation trainers in existence, although some allow upper body movement, at least.
    This one, from Sweden, I call the Checking Trainer.
     
  21. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Interesting, but it teaches Old School skiing.
    It does not tick ANY of my boxes:
    1 Driven by upper body anticipation.
    2 Small deviations only from Centered Balance
    3 Fully finished turns (90 degrees either way)
    4 Progressive resistance (to simulate increasing edge angle)
    5 Banking
    6 Infinity Move (dunno how to incorporate this one)

    OK So all this is exciting to nobody except me :emoji_movie_camera:
    Now I am looking at carbon DPS skis turned by anticipation in their natural environment.

    Yes. please.
     
  22. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    Look at what an acomplished Bel Turner can achieve!

     
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  23. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Your wish is my command! Number One Bel Instructeur is right now in Quebec Old City and will report on local ski innovations.
    Note their equivalent of our Bears (possibly with less work ethic).
    They show NO SIGN OF A SNOWPLOUGH !
    [​IMG]
     
  24. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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  25. KL.

    KL. Dedicated Member

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    BBB, the 2 hands flowing together is much better.

    That is, while the new/now outside hand rotates inward the new/now inside hand finishes and rotates outward! A little like Karate Kid, wax on and wax off flowing at the same time.
     
  26. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    http://www.popscreen.com/v/7llbt/UNIVERSAL-LEARN-TO-SKI-METHOD-Lesson-FOUR Yes yes yes. But for beginners, you must admit that it gets them across the dreaded fall line with transferred rotation, without resorting to the decadent and outdated knee rotation and edge engagement, which can be introduced later when it will not dominate their style. :)
     
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  27. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    I'm amazed that @bawbawbel hasn't had anything to say about the excellent shoulder anticipation and direction change made with the upper body by the skier in my video.

    Perhaps the Bel Turn is a steaming pile of manure?
     
  28. Kletterer

    Kletterer Addicted Member
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    But ya gotta love the waiter ( white shirt with vest) who just continues going about his business
     
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  29. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Maybe you had just one element missing, TP ? Much wisdom from our Frenchie, who said "You would not have crashed if you kept your skis together".
    Anyway, I gave you a "like" for effort, I hope that you walked away.
    Please do not give up your attempts to update your technique. :)
     
    #230 bawbawbel, Dec 25, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  30. Kletterer

    Kletterer Addicted Member
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    LOL There will only ever be 1 BBB. Seasons greetings to ya mate . Dont eat too much fruitcake.
     
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  31. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    Yeh naaa.

    Her technique was perfect Bel, and who could have asked for a better result?
     
  32. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Hmm..
    I am considering an alternative path to nirvarna without the knees for the most stubborn skiers who are confirmed kniers.
    You must learn Euroboarding first with it's emphasis on Shoulders First and then Skoarding mit das skis will follow painlessly.
    My Abcircle trainer won't be fully developed before the southern ski season starts, so I recommend the Gyroboard. :)
    Note that NONE of the many balancy, "Keep your upper body still", non-Bel moves shown are any help, you must rotate the board from your shoulders.
     
  33. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    The rotation resistance must be set to emulate the rusty bar stool from my previous posting from Bob Barnes.
    Then you must diligently create the 5 types of rotation which he insisted are part of every well rounded skier's repertoire

    Or
    Stare fixedly for 5 minutes at my Schlopy Copy (hope he doesn't mind, for a good cause )
    Strange that NOBODY except Schlopy can do his drill using Bel anticipation....Orlrite, how do I post a GIF ?
     
    #234 bawbawbel, Dec 28, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  34. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    Now that I look for it I see Bel anticipation in all great skiers. Just look at the video below of a skiing master. You can see how the framing of his camera anticipates his skis turning and then turns with them, stunning Bel technique.

     
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  35. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    A most unfortunate accident, but I detect something more than rage in the response of his victim.
    They may have clicked and lived happily ever after together.
    He was probably trying to anticipate using only the rotation of his eyeballs, as mastered by Ninjas trying to gain Black Bel Fifth Dan.
    Some would claim that Schlopy is sloppy , there is a certain freedom in his freestyle.
    You can attempt the Eyeball Move, even while under instruction, provided that you wear your darkest lens.

    Long way to go, Joe. BBB might wright you off as untrainable....
     
    #236 bawbawbel, Dec 29, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  36. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Seriously now...
    2017 is the year to get into gear! Quebec is where it's at, The French are bringing the Canadian instructors around to PIVOTEMENT , but quite late, and they do not yet quite understand the physics involved.
    We will follow an instructor of the New School, and compare with how we are presently being taught.
     
  37. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    OK. So we have adopted the (overseas) snowboard technique as the basis of a superior ski technique.
    You might as well buy the Apex boot for this season instead of the Head.



    For Bel technique you will need to completely disconnect the forward flex adjustment :0
     
    #238 bawbawbel, Jan 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  38. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    In the Rockies, had to get our instructors to leave their poles behind to prevent contamination of their style by the American Pole Planters all around them.
    Maybe it is time to review the basics of the Bel technique in a few words:
    1. Skis follow shoulders.
    2. Upper body windup takes place during the previous turn.
    3. This rotation is STOPPED at transition.

    Here is a Ligeti drill to free the shoulders and get the Bel to jel:
    (Watch from 40 at quarter speed )
    .
    .
     
  39. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    The more often I see acomplished Bel turners the more I am convinced by the effectiveness of the technique.

    The two guys in the video below use Bel anticipation to achieve a level of control which is stunning and allows them to perform the best pair syncro I have ever seen.

     
  40. Kletterer

    Kletterer Addicted Member
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  41. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Precision and perfection not a goal.
    People in the Pub (why are they avoiding me?) point out that if my style is so natural, then a sozzled skier will be seen to be using it.
    Not so. It is completely counter intuitive except in kids that have not been converted to fulcrum fools of the Standard Style.
    A sozzled slider will just turn shoulders DURING the turn to help it around.
     
  42. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Bel Trainer development just goes on and on, a bit like the Mission to make Snow.
    I have been advised not to publish details until international patents are applied for, but Mark 1 does not include much intellectual property, so what the heck?
    Mark 1 is to be known as the Universal Rotation Trainer as it converts quickly from Bel Skiing Rotation to Euroboarding Rotation.
    No Oz beginning boarder rotates their turn entry, from my observations. But they should..
     
  43. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Major update to Mark 1. It was hard work without gravity to assist. Nobody likes hard work.
    Added epicycle gears and operator adjustable torque motor.
    Mark 1 (two foot platform) now does the lot. Mark 2 (independent leg action) abandoned as probably unnecessary.
    Three stages to painlessly learning Anticipation Drive and Infinity Move together.
    Platform tilts as it rotates while driving from side to side and front to back.
    1. Motor drive (to teach Muscle Memory.)
    Hold the support handles and let the motor position your feet at two cycles per second.
    2. Motor assist only.
    Let go the handles. Turn down the motor input. The cycle will eventually not complete without some rotary transfer, either from knees or shoulders.
    3. Instruction.
    Reduce knee input, replace with anticipatory power.
     
  44. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    What are we trying to achieve, anyway?
    We need to get past the "one turn at a time" fixation that blinkers the "modern" skier to the extent that they accept that only gravity can initiate the next turn.
    Are YOU among the fou wou have the nou vou ?
    [​IMG]

    A pivot slipper of 2017 will claim that Willie is performing a turn to the right using "reverse shoulder", which pushes his tails out.
    NO! He remains perfectly centered by moving his balance forward. He is preparing a turn to the LEFT, just like Ligeti.
     
  45. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    He he. I must have heard that half a dozen times recently when I put "expert" skiers on the Mark 1 Rotation Trainer.
    They just stand there waiting for something to happen !
    That is what comes from letting gravity start the turn and sidecut edge to finish it.
    The Mark 2 has 3 electric motors and is not really portable, I will put it aside for graduates of Rotation 101..
    But the Mark One is lots of fone!
     
  46. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Every time I take my recyles to the tip they have another couple of Abcircles for me! Bout time that I started to ship them out.
    But who tho?
    The Bel Revolution has not yet gone viral.
    Latest complaint: "Trainer is too much like grass skiing"
    So I have introduced more slop in the system. That was easy. Now more like wearing oversize boots with the buckles undone.
    Hmm..Come to think of it, I have often mentioned that possibility. Maybe also issue training skis with their edges filed off :nerd::nerd:
     
  47. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    The first trainer I made was a fail because it provided heel push instead of centered rotation.
    But I will retain it to demonstrate a nono.
    I was asked if Chubby Checker was the ultimate Bel demonstrater.
    No. No anticipation was used or needed for the Twist.
    But I have not since seen such a classy demo of Newton Equal and Opposite Rotation.
     
  48. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member
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    Anticipation does come more easily in a tele turn. But some telemarkers still refuse to see it.
    Todays exercise is to understand where the smooth top of the turn in the Ligeti/Shiffrin technique comes from.
    Watch everybody else failing because they create each turn separately instead of setting up that vital inside arm rotation.
     
  49. KL.

    KL. Dedicated Member

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    big tray/small tray