South Face Road closure

Discussion in 'Mt Baw Baw' started by bawbawbel, Feb 12, 2017.

  1.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Passion is a poor opponent for the combination of Spin and Red Herrings because rage only lasts so long.
    Beware of the Spinning Red Herring!
    After rallying on Parliament steps to prevent proposed overhead powerlines from Tasmania going through our peaceful bit of Latrobe Valley, it became apparent that that was never in THE PLAN at all.
    It was then built through a sensitive "alternative" forest route in very quick time indeed.
    Heyfield should maybe have budgeted a long ago for beam laminating machines, if that is what is needed to "take smaller logs". Funny fishy smell...
     
  2.  
    Tanuki

    Tanuki Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    :thumbs: bawbawbel likes this.
  3.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Long Term PLAN (from biomassproducer.au) (IEA incudes 20 European countries)

    "Active participation in IEA Bioenergy will:
    support the position of Australia’s forest
    industry to lobby for a reform to state
    and federal legislation dealing with
    the use of forest residues for bioenergy
    purposes
    enable integration of forest biomass
    harvesting with other IEA bioenergy
    programs"

    Short Term: (example)
    Lots of trees in Tasmania. 300,000 hectares just released for the Tamar Valley pulp mill "without including any wilderness"
    All reference now being diligently deleted from the internet.
     
  4.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Yes, A hundred meters from the Tall Trees Reserve is plenty for some..
    No possums there, and only rainforest in the valleys, which apparently does not count, because VicForests is forbidden from logging rainforest. err.. [​IMG]

    https://echoactive.com/community/photos/47-blue-vein-coupe-map-w-leadys-jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  5.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    We just need to face that reality. Looking at the monoculture logging from Feathertop . I see the impressive regeneration that you have described. Better to burn it in boilers than bushfires.
    We should maybe be trying instead to help save the S E Asian forests from the grip of corrupt officials.

    " The authors added that only in places where the relationship between high tree diversity and carbon levels has been established can one be used as an indicator for the other. Specifically, the plots examined in Southeast Asia were found to be both diverse in tree species and carbon biomass, a finding that underlines the need to protect such forests."

    Japan have protected ALL their forests, sad if an earthquake releases Fukushima's China Syndrome and it has to be evacuated :(
     
  6.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    1. Mill have announced that it will close in 18 months.
    2. Equipment has been removed from Ada coupe.
    3. VicForests will provide only half the requested annual sawlog allocation.

    "oh boy! A win!" cry the people with possums in their pockets.

    BUT:
    1. Will they really?
    2. All felled trees can now be removed .
    3. The allocation will be provided over SIX months (ie no change) !!

    Add to the above a new plan of storing felled logs on the coupes so that they are not tallied and you will appreciate that things are actually much worse than before.
     
  7.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    If Vic Forest say it's unsustainable to allocate that amount of saw logs then its foolhardy to not heed their professional judgement on sustainable yield.

    Team Bears feel for the timber workers and the township of Heyfield.
    Not an easy solution here..but the government of the day should be busting its asse to help Heyfield by providing a strategy for redeployment of workers or by creating other job oportunities.

    You would wish that planning would have seen the writing on the wall for this mill whereby it's present allocation could not be guaranteed several years ago.
     
  8.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    OK. VicForests congratulating themselves that the time for submissions on the biggest release of sensitive coupes in their history has now passed without a community scream of rage. Tiny postings of request for comment with dead links in small regional newspapers and calling the releases "small logging operations" was critical to this. (small compared to the woodchip industry, yes).
    Heyfield is main supplier of hardwood to Bunnings and your tables are no doubt made from it.
    That they would not sell the company to the government is a good indication that they aren't going away to Tasmania when the 18 months are up.
    So we gotta LOVE VicForests. Secrecy and spin is the easy way.
    Big changes, please.
    It will be hard. Just released are documents regarding the initial creation of VicForests. Scientific papers were not allowed to be tabled and the authors were restricted to verbal comment.
    Only one step from calling dissident scientist terrorists and droning them.
    (PS Scott Adams WhenHub may be the last chance for the public to own the Internet instead of the other way around.)
     
  9.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Today a pollie referred to "supply of pulp" regarding Heyfield problem. Woops! Shot in foot!
    There must be big contractual penalty to be paid if Greenvale supply cannot be maintained until 2030.
    On the other hand ASH failed in 2016 in a bid to take the government to court.
    Diverting 10 percent of Greenvale trucks would leave Heyfield sitting pretty FOREVER.
     
  10.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Well I wood love to utilise red gum but it's expensive timber for even posts...
    Our tables are just about all 100pc. Treated soft wood bar one where red gum posts where 50pc reduced at Wangaratta on one occasion.
    So our tables are all from soft wood plantations all treated pine H4 posts and H4 Sleepers,frame of H3.But if somebody supplies me with cheap hardwood we may use it but it is harder to drill and insert screws...

    So we don't want folk saying that treated pine looks out of place in a hardwood stand..all Eucalypts are Harwood of varying hardness...it's probably more environmental to use soft wood plantation timber and the major factor has to be cost.....

    Yes those soft woods don't belong in an area of Eucalyptus Hardwoods but it's best we can manage....bit of a compromise....only ones with hardwood components ,only a couple with timber sourced from Sunbury Tip and as we said heavily discounted posts for one other.

    We are up to table 20 now but I don't think we are a major player in the demand side of the timber equation.:p
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  11.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Tables look real classy. The era of shrinking, twisting, brittelling and peeling treated pine must be over.
    Can we make house frames of it yet?

    I note logging critics going to water as they suddenly remember that now their every keystroke, tweet, travel, bankin and buying is kept forever in a big bucket for instant retrieval if an unknown algorithm requests it.
    Be aware that internet deletions and shadowbans are in full swing.
    Insiders coming out are gettin rarer.
    http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/ne...k=8ac520bb88cf7fe06354b373ab55e000-1490435323
     
  12.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Wow! I could buy a car for the commercial price of materials for a table made from the best hardwood!
    Wot? A hardwood mill is crying poor?
    And that reminds me of a recent quote of 548 dollars to supply (($39) and fit (10 minutes) an ignition bit to my car.
    Greed and goldmines go together.
    And what does it take to radicalize a religion? My wif was nervous about passing a "gang" sitting on an Indonesian street corner. Well, those kids who were no doubt being taught that it is evil to charge interest on a loan were playing chess....
     
  13.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Help pls. Just one broiler farm takes 60 semi loads of Heyfield chicken litter per annum. (Weekly Times).
    Heyfield provides more than half the chicken litter to Victorian farms, expanding at 10 per year..
    Is that a reasonable amount of sawdust to expect from a mill operation?
    Might have to listen to John Faine, got an hour to spare?
    http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/radio/local_melbourne/audio/201703/abi-2017-03-21.mp3
     
  14.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    We need locally grown hardwood...what we don't want is an industry that is unsustainable....Possibly our frequent high intensity bush fires have caused problems with the sustainability equation.

    Strict prescriptions for hardwood logging and regeneration need to be adhered to.

    Environmental issues also need to be taken seriously..

    Hardwood logging is not evil.o_O
     
    :thumbs: Charlie likes this.
  15.  
    chriscross

    chriscross Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    The way it has been conducted historically and recently has paid very little attention to "strict prescriptions" or "environmental issues", hence ecological destruction and species extinction has resulted. Recent court action re: Erinundra a good example. Successive governments and so called "experts" have lied and used weasel words while irreplaceable habitats have been destroyed to sustain a small number of jobs in vulnerable electorates. It could have been done sustainably but that was never the mindset of the people running the industry or working in it.
     
  16.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Takeaways from that ABC hour:
    "The Logging Industry is not Accountable!"
    "Sawlog timber is just the byproduct of the Heyfield business!"
    "Victoria is the most cleared state!"
    The most significant comment, which was immediately rubbished:
    "The 40 million is just an effort to extract a freebe from us taxpayers."
    Not only that, but I reckon it would be used on latest woodchipping plant. Rather than have the mill then "Able to handle smaller logs", it would let them process a 70 year old tree in 70 seconds. Efficiency, baby!

    The interdependent industries are so entrenched and unwilling to change (minimum of 100,000 chickens in every broiler farm say they MUST have bedding from forest hardwood, rather than inferior plantation chips) that confrontation and pain seem unavoidable.
    Even if there really are 30,000 possums around, they may be the only way to force some discipline on the rabid cleanout of the remnant natural environment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  17.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Hmm.. Another rubbished call insisted that leadbeater zones would result in the government being sued, this is not possible when fires reduce available forest.
    Sure enough, I find that there is action on this front in the good old USA.
    No, just companies protecting their bottom line.
    Refused to reply to repeated suggestion that another company might find the reduced allocation viable.
    Gotta save the 1%
    Agreed Steve, the rest can continue unabated.
     
  18.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Well it's a well edited video....but I wonder about the wisdom of making it a National Park when we have not got sufficient staff and a budget to manage what Parks already exist in Victoria.I can see large clear felling coupes from the side of Mt Mulhauser lower down on the hillsides...but one should not be conned that the clearing felling prescriptions followed up there are necessarily an environmental disaster for the complex ecosystems found here.Sustainability of these hardwood forests to meet timber,wildlife habitat,the maintenance of the Eucalypt and understory gene pool,the catchment values to preserve quality water run off are all factors that need to be considered in any hardwood logging involvement...
    Locking up areas of native forest without any management is a quaint idea that far too many so called environmentalists still believe will benefit the forest ecosystem. I appreciate concern over habitat destruction and the declining nos of the wildlife population.....but u gotta question if it would be a wise idea to give control to the Parks.....they will lock up the area and also cause degradation to the forest ecosystem by total inaction....perhaps we all better start eating venison that is being sourced from out native forest system.Perhaps we all better start eating tons of venison and blackberry pie for desert..Maybe the guides on the FHAW could serve this as the Parks Vic Special to the walking tourists....

    One also has to question how wildlife populations are coping with the intense wildfire regime that is now very different than half a century ago in most of Victoria...The frequency of these destructive fires maybe endangering populations to a greater extent than extensive hardwood logging coupes.
    An talk of accountability......well you have the VNPA to scared to openly critize Parks Vic's Move to go Commercial in some of the trendy Walk areas around Feathertop....but it's common knowledge they are all shell shocked and dismayed by direction and leadership being exercised by Parks.And folk keep saying it's pressure coming from outside Parks....to which Team Bears would say that Parks Vic are deliberately refusing to make a stand and to oppose these environmentally disastrous plans....is this the type of management that you think is going to save your Baw Baw Forests???
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
    :thumbs: bawbawbel likes this.
  19.  
    chriscross

    chriscross Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    So because PV is under pressure, we should not have more parks? Sorry, but I do not find this kind of thinking at all convincing. If we follow this argument, we end up with more of what we see in the video above.
     
  20.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    ACF were silly to show a normal 20 year monoculture harvesting just because it is spectacular in area.
    VicForests want much, much more. The status quo is not enough, the moneymen see the need for expansion.
    The last pockets of delight are in their sights.
    Hidden in their deliberately indecipherable (or NONEXISTENT) public mudmaps are "projected coupes" more unacceptable than a "Blair's Hut Accommodation Precinct " or a "Mushroom Rocks Feeding Station".
     
  21.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Can horses ride from Erica to Whitelaw along the main ridge line of the plateau.....

    I still have trouble accepting that regeneration of Harwood coupes produces a monoculture....
    Pine plantations are true examples of monoculture apart from cute fungi etc.
    as no understory seems capable of surviving the changes that Pinus Radiata produces in the soil.
     
  22.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    The logging ACF featured above is reclaimed farming land on the Matlock Plateau. It was monoculture planted with Mountain Ash. But note that that was done 20 years ago. Today the "remove a tree, replace a tree" rule has been ABANDONED.
    Listen carefully to the ABC hour above for confirmation of this.
    Heyfield has 60 million dollars worth of "product" stockpiled. Before the 18 months is up they hope to get the expansion they seek, one way or another. Only above the snow line is safe.
     
  23.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    What is an RFA (Regional Forests Agreement)?
    These absolve Victoria from National environment laws.
    They last 20 years and were renewed in February.
    From eastgippsland.net.au :
    "Along with the historic malpractice of unrestricted clearfell logging, another industry crime is the illegal downgrading and chipping of good quality sawlogs for a quick buck. This has helped drain the landscape of forests that can provide sawlogs. Today we also see VicForests selling whole logs to China, a practice that was illegal not long ago. Logs needed to be ‘processed’ before being exported, so the ends were simply cut off to fit them into the containers – hey presto, processed log!"
    Probably didn't happen? But how quickly things change!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  24.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Well I would not take the statement"historic malpractice of clear fell logging"

    as a truth unless I had an essential understanding of the logging industry...

    This statement certainly sounds the goods :I am sure the ACF and folk like Bob Brown use a slant like this in most discussions..

    But I would be doing more research before I swallowed this one....

    But we appreciate your posts Bawbawbel....and at least it provokes discussion and further research.....So a brighter light can be shone over the sustainability issue and the practices of hardwood logging.

    Not sold on the idea of an extended National Park.....Team Bears don't see that as a solution based on the performance and resources/funding of Parks Vic.
     
  25.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    "UNRESTRICTED clearfell logging" was the quote.`
    Even the hectare counters seem to be missing the big fact about big trees.
    http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/ne...k=5cff4cf64a75b4cd19400661e279359f-1491325517
    Much more than "hectares" , the big fact is that 90 percent of available BIG trees have been logged since 2004.
    And they go mainly to chips :eek:
    Big log handling machinery in the coupes makes this "efficient".
    The big Alexandra mill was closed in 2010 and it's allocation transferred to Heyfield. Not enough?
    Now they want the big thinkers in Canberra to "fix" the supply situation by ignoring inconvenient facts.
     
  26.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Let us summarize the setup;
    From VNPA
    " Over the past months Australian Sustainable Hardwoods, Australia’s biggest sawmill, has run a sustained campaign to get special treatment for more wood and for a $40-million handout to re-tool after VicForests offered it less wood in future contracts.
    Almost all of the feedstock for the Heyfield sawmill comes from publicly-owned ash forests, and close to half-a-million tonnes of trees are needed each year to feed Australian Paper’s contract for the Maryvale pulp mill. A significant percentage of wood is also trucked to Geelong Port for export to Asia. A large volume is used to make pallets and, unbelievably, some is sent in shipping containers to China as whole logs with no value added in Australia.
    Incredibly, VicForests not only provides the wood, it also covers the costs of logging and hauling. It’s a profitably cosy arrangement for the industry, especially when it convinces governments to pay compensation when the forests cannot supply the wood."

    40 million! They BOUGHT the mill for 28 million!
    My post about how they will spend it has been moderated away as speculative. We will see....
     
  27.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Well you don't want to upset that moderator.....
    I have just been suspended......So I understand.....just when zapruda was to discuss the fictious Pole lines running east of the Etheridge I got closed down..the truth just don't come out sometimes.

    So screw them all I pulled all my pictures....oh they were 30yrs old an NSW dudes could not cope with it.My form,presentation,slang old pics all considered unsatisfactory and talk of derailing the thread....you know what it is.....it's folk trying to control the line of the thread for their own satisfaction and they will use any means possible to stifle healthy debate..but I told them and the moderator where to go...
    I communicate this to you from the top of Bossiea Hill as I descend along Longspur....our ideologies may come from a differing view point but have an enjoyable day...I am over the silly pricks in the backcountry totally.
    Perhaps tell the moderator to get a dick in his ear..
    ..I swear tell him that and I am out for a lifetime ban.
    Do have a nice day bawbawbel.
    I will read your threads ....and I do take notice of your view point.
     
  28.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Maybe I hate news as entertainment.
    Sell and close our 8 chimney power plant.
    Just because the highway fell into coal hoal and the pit catches fire because all the water pipes were removed and sold by the motorbike club.
    What about the ramifications?
    I will no longer have warm winter windsurfing.
    The baramundi will die from cold.
     
  29.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    New posters needing to muscle their way into the pecking order sort of reminds me of bushwalking club meetings in Hobart.
    A tiger walker with a few leaches still hanging off him would burst in to announce a new record.
    Horses for courses, everybody does their thing.
     
  30.  
    snowgum

    snowgum Dedicated Member

    Good on you BBB, flying the flag for the forest.

    Steve, I don't understand what has happened (said) to get you booted. We may not align that closely regarding logging but I enjoy your posts and seeing what you do for the bush - presumably for little financial reward.

    As the son of a long line of Gippslanders (some involved in old-school cutting) - I think it's time for the industry to adjust to the diminishing availability of its raw product.

    It such a shame Jeff K and mates stitched Victoria & it's Forests to such a lousy and unsustainable deal to supply Maryvale timber for chipping. Just a small percentage of this huge volume would keep ASH in timber for year and keep Retailers in furniture product.

    But like gas, you don't sell virtually everything overseas for little benefit and then complain about the local supply. When will our pollies & industries learn?
     
    :thumbs: Ubiquitous Steve likes this.
  31.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Now it gets political. Vic govt will have to change possum status. They will probably "find" a possum plague and they should be culled. No, not da politicions!
    weakly times 10 april:
    " Could the Heyfield issue influence a Victorian election?
    It comes as the CFMEU this week began 150,000 automated phone calls across three Government-held electorates: Mordialloc, Narre Warren and Monbulk, held by Deputy Premier James Merlino.
    The message was recorded by a Heyfield mill shop steward."
     
  32.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    I don't quite understand the post about possums?

    At the risk at looking stupid could you explain this Bawbawbel just a little.
    I am not being critical of your well meaning post I just don't understand what's happening regarding possums and possible extermination.

    Are logging guidelines being reframed to water down protection for endangered species and destruction of their habitat..

    Team Bears looks forward to your clarification of this when you have time..
    Cheers....:)
     
  33.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    That has been suggested by Opposition pollies. Of course, if elected, they will find that it ain't that easy.
    And if ALL Leadbeater buffer zones ( which are each only one tenth of the scientifically recommended size ) were cancelled it would only provide wood for another 18 months. Worst case: Eventually no more full wood allocation and no more old growth and no more possums.
    " However, the Opposition and some members of cabinet think more can be done to release timber stocks, including a review of environmental controls protecting the leadbeater’s possum, which have locked up more than 10,000ha of commercial forest from logging.
    Premier Daniel Andrews has told workers he will continue to explore options to sell the mill as a going concern. A government spokesman said it was in talks with one potential buyer."

    Not theirs to buy and sell, surely, a gift of half a million dollars for laminating machinery doesn't mean they own it.
     
  34.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Thanks Bawbawbel .....this watered down buffer zone sounds bad news .

    I won't support government action to take any timber from formerly protected areas.....this is bad forestry practice......thanks for your post....I do support hardwood logging but not without guidelines being followed that recognise important habitat areas...Again thank you ....
     
  35.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    The government fixes squeaky wheels at ANY cost. Misterabbit even tried to get a delisting of the World Heritage Tasmanian Florentine Valley past UNESCO on the basis that it was 4 percent "degraded".
    A 5 million dollar gift of your money to Heyfield is on the table. Not enough, it seems.

    It would be incredible if The Bears sought out and arrived to take photos in the new secret coupes as they were attacked.
    A unique opportunity for a very specialized team. :)
     
  36.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    As a digression.....have you any idea why the Lightning Creek Picnic Ground (Mitta Mitta) is undergoing work.....is the bridge not able to support the load of heavy vehicles or logs trucks ??They are obviously spending quite a lot of government funds up there.
     
  37.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Trees are a bit straggly there? Don't even know where the local mill is located.
    Anybody?
     
  38.  
    bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    The VicForest's agenda is becoming clearer to me, at least.
    They are required to make a profit from the deals that have been thrust apon them.
    That is why VicForests THEMSELVES send containers of trees over sees.
    They are in the red regarding East Gippsland harvesting and were wondering if this could be financed as a "Community Obligation Expense". :whistle:
    Is this not a CONFLICT OF INTEREST from the so called CUSTODIAN of our forest heritage?
    They should be changed to a fully funded department at once.
    The present situation is as if the Heritage Commission were required to pay officers salaries by selling antiques snaffelled fom heritage listed homes.....
     
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