Slater & Gordon go the Arlberg Hotham

Discussion in 'Hotham and Dinner Plain' started by Rimey, Jun 12, 2016.

  1.  
    Rimey

    Rimey Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Herald-Sun:
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...n/news-story/1704056681dd62b991138fe46781b2e3
    Action:
    "THE parents of an aspiring AFL footballer who died after falling from a ski resort window are suing the Mt Hotham hotel over their son’s death."

    The Claim:
    "In their view, the owner or manager of the premises should have been aware that the window was able to be completely removed and people may attempt to gain access to the ledge which was adjacent to a sloping roof."
     
  2.  
    qwill

    qwill Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    S&g need the fee income
     
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  3.  
    cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Season Pass Gold

    Batshit stupid kid has batshit stupid parents.
     
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  4.  
    currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    If he became a quadriplegic and needed the money to support his medical/support costs I could at least understand it, if not agree with the action
     
  5.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    How can you know the mind of this family ?
     
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  6.  
    cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Season Pass Gold

    By their actions.
     
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  7.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Based on a three liner from the Herald Sun ?
     
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  8.  
    cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Season Pass Gold

    Stupid is as stupid does. If you wish to defend their actions by all means go ahead.
     
  9.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    I am not defending their actions but I am questioning yours ?

    You have called the whole family stupid based on a 3 liner from the Herald Sun which IMHO, is a very harsh stance based on very little information. Litigation is the system created by the system.
     
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  10.  
    cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Season Pass Gold

    I'd love to hear that I'm wrong but I'm not counting on it. The parents have chosen their course. Let's see what comes of it.
     
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  11.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Well yes, that would be a much better approach. Wait and see, let the system do its work. Try and understand the process, motivations, influences and directives a little.

    Their son died.
     
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  12.  
    Rimey

    Rimey Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    The item in full:

    Parents of teenager who died at Mt Hotham to take legal action

    June 12, 2016 2:33pm
    PETER MICKELBUROUGHHerald Sun


    [​IMG]
    Eamon O'Connor died after falling from a window at Mt Hotham.



    THE parents of an aspiring AFL footballer who died after falling from a ski resort window are suing the Mt Hotham hotel over their son’s death.

    This weekend marked the third anniversary of Eamonn “Euwie” O’Connor’s tragic death on the opening weekend of the 2013 ski season.

    The 19-year-old fell about 15 metres to the ground from a fifth-floor window of the Alberg Hotel in the early hours of on June 9. He suffered a fractured skull and chest injuries and died that night in the Alfred Hospital.

    In a devastating double tragedy just six months after Eamonn’s death his older sister Erin O’Connor, 32, was hit by a car and killed.

    Eamonn’s parents hope their legal action will encourage greater safety at places where young people frequent.

    “After dealing with other tragic, life-changing events following their son’s death, Wendy and Michael O’Connor sought to ensure Eamonn hadn’t died in vain and lessons are learnt,” Slater and Gordon Lawyer Ike Nwokolo said on behalf of the family.

    [​IMG]
    “The premises where the accident occurred is a regular holiday destination for young people and the thought of such tragedy happening to anyone else is an unbearable thought for them.

    “Wendy and Michael believe Eamonn’s death could have been avoided if adequate safety measures had been put in place, including ensuring that the window of the room in which he was staying could not be removed.

    “In their view, the owner or manager of the premises should have been aware that the window was able to be completely removed and people may attempt to gain access to the ledge which was adjacent to a sloping roof.
     
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  13.  
    cqen2l

    cqen2l Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    Did the parents approach Slutty & Greedy or vice versa? My guess would be the later.
     
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  14.  
    scottski

    scottski Addicted Member

    We're getting sued at the moment by Swine Lawyers for $280,000.

    A woman took a dog from the local shops at 8 pm on a Saturday night and brought it to us demanding we take the dog. When we pointed to the sign that we don't take non injured stray dogs she went ape shit.

    Ended up with security guards on site and her dumping the Dog and walking out.

    Apparently she now is so traumatized she has no social,life.

    The councils have no rangers at night and they are sending people to the after hours hospitals. We get eight strays per day. RSPCA no longer takes stray dogs. We can't take them. As it is it costs us $140,000 per annum in injured strays and wildlife.

    Time to get rid of the no win no fee scum bucket bottom fishing legal profession and perhaps make wires and RSPCA do something for the money they bleed out of government.

    Rant over
     
  15.  
    cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Season Pass Gold

    The underlying premise of the case is that the hotel should have treated him like he was batshit stupid. Make of that what you will. I know I have.
     
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  16.  
    scottski

    scottski Addicted Member

    Time to sue slater and Gordon and swine lawyers for misleading poor people suffering grief .

    I went out of my way to invest in the hedge fund running the short strategy on Slaters. Nearly drove it into oblivion. Sort of a public service.
     
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  17.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    I didn't create the system. In the case of the window fall there may well be some sort of apportioned liability. Windows 5 stories up should not be able to be removed by the general public.

    In the case of crazy pet people ...

    Perhaps the system needs modification so that the legal firms that loose cases they actively champion are held liable to all costs. I dunno how that part works.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  18.  
    cqen2l

    cqen2l Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    Can I correct you @scottski? Legal is no longer a profession, it's an industry. Full of compensation chasing scumbags.
     
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  19.  
    scottski

    scottski Addicted Member

    Thanks Cquen21. I'm planning on asking the Swine lawyer if he managed to interview for Allens or Blakes or one of the big six or did he choose Slaters out of principle ?
     
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  20.  
    LMB

    LMB Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    I can understand the parents taking action to ensure that the windows are secured and this kind of accident doesn't happen again.

    Hunting for big payouts for no reason - like the 'traumatised' woman with the stray dog is just disgraceful.

    A 5th floor window should not be able to be completely removed. Opening weekend can be a booze fest,especially out of control for those inexperienced at drinking. When they're drunk they are stupid. Arlberg should have altered all the windows on thier own and issued the parents with information that they decided to do this to ensure such a tragedy never occurs again.
    (If they have, and this is actually about a cash settlement then I take it all back :thumbs:)
     
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  21.  
    cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Season Pass Gold

    Do. Not. Agree.

    It was a window. Not a door.
     
  22.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    There are certain building standards that may apply. Mostly arising from the need to protect small children in highrise developments.
     
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  23.  
    cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Season Pass Gold

    This kid was 19. Drunk, not drunk or whatever he is responsible for the decisions he makes.
     
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  24.  
    Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Careful mate.
    The kid in question is from my home town. His family are decent folks.
    I'm not suggesting litigation is the right option in the circumstances, but after losing two of their children, I'm guessing that they're quite vulnerable emotionally, and Slaters can hook them with a no win-no fee kind of deal.
     
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  25.  
    parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    There are building regulations around requiring safety railing on decks only a meter off the ground, i can understand why windows above a certain height should not be able to be climbed out of without breaking, if a drunk teenager who should know better can get out and fall a child who might not know better could as well
     
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  26.  
    Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Lots of lefty lawyer types go to big plaintiff law firms to "fight for fair". Yeah, they're big money churners (don't get me started on TAC compo lawyers) but some people think they're making a difference.
     
  27.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    These scenarios are from where the standard is derived.
     
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  28.  
    climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Season Pass Gold

    LOL
    Should go down well.
     
  29.  
    luvthabumps

    luvthabumps Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    Hang on - what do they mean by "the window could be completely removed"?

    could it be opened too far that he could fall out ( a major **** up) or could it literally be "removed" ? (not sure of all the detail is included in the article)

    was the window compliant with BCA when last checked by a Building Surveyor / Inspector ? If so why would the hotel think there was anything wrong?

    Aus Standards change regularly - most don't know until it's too late that they may be non compliant and saying that people should be all over this is naive. Check out pool fence regs - a minefield of complete bullshit these days that is regularly interpreted in a multitude of ways by a multitude of people.

    Family is hurting no doubt but the lawsuit sounds like ambo chasing on face value :(
     
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  30.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Well yes it does and no doubt the only people that will prosper would be the lawyers.
     
  31.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    You should aim on getting a few more strays courtesy of Qantas. I heard they pay up (I hope!) ;-)

    Why won't the RSPCA take strays? That's what they're meant to be isn't it - a dog shelter? They're a bunch of bloody crooks the RSPCA - fleecing the public and doing stuff all. :tany:
     
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  32.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    It was a revelation at the Paws walk on just how corporatised the RSPCA has become.
     
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  33.  
    Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Dedicated Member

    Most residential grade sliding windows can be taken out of the frame - usually for cleaning. Arlberg is over 30 years old so it wouldn't be BCA compliant unless Alpine Shire had placed an upgrade order on it. Very few BCA matters have been retrospective (eg. Safety glass to sidelight windows).
     
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  34.  
    LMB

    LMB Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    Regardless, if a small child can fall out, then it's a safety issue. If a drunk 19yr old can get out, chances are kids can - they can be resourceful at times.
    Yes, he is. And he paid for it. With his life.

    I don't condone profiteering but I do think accidents, no matter how bizarre, can highlight safety issues that need to be addressed moving forward.

    A friends son was badly injured by a large shard of glass from a window he was standing under when a kid kicked a ball into it. Multiple kids were hospitalised and this boy was a mm or two from going right through his jugular. No safety glass in a window, in a school, in a sports area. It highlighted a problem, all windows were inspected and any that weren't safety glass were immediately replaced.

    Actioning problems to make things safer - it's a good way to be.
     
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  35.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    Woody, it's been known for a long time that they only do anything about real cruelty if they get their noggins on the TV. If you ever need them to attend a situation, when you phone them, tell them that Channels 9 & 7 are already on their way to the scene. Otherwise they won't give a toss.
     
  36.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    I never knew, realised, but this years paws walk was a revelation. So many past charities have been perverted by the privatization process. Wilderness society is another.
     
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  37.  
    gettingtooold

    gettingtooold Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Without judgement to the parents litigating, it's a sad fact that we follow the US model and "sue anyone you can" if someone gets injured or worse. Not a great path to take IMO but understand that after grieving anger steps in and blame is looked for.
    As someone said to me the other day. It's so bloody cold today, they actually saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.
     
  38.  
    currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

     
  39.  
    currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    Of course we should learn from accidents and make changes to try to prevent recurrence. I just don't think civil action by the individual for damages is the best way to achieve this.

    In the case of deaths, the coroner normally does this.
    In many cases workcover can drive the process.

    If a business complies with all safety regulations and doesn't knowingly/deliberately let obviously unsafe things continue, then it's a bit rough to find them liable - especially when the carelessness of the injured party is far more than the carelessness of the business.
     
  40.  
    June daily watching

    June daily watching Dedicated Member

    Isn't that an abuse of the legal system?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  41.  
    June daily watching

    June daily watching Dedicated Member

    Gough wanted to introduce a national no-fault compensation scheme along the lines of a German system (I think).
    Instead, the big insurers were only too happy to finance the opposition campaign that gave us denial of supply and 2 elections in 2 years, Fraser as PM and little Johnny as treasurer.
    So people have to rely on a system of lawsuits to seek redress.
    These are the rules we have - hardly surprising that people do it that way.
     
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  42.  
    climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Season Pass Gold

    Anyway, who'd expect footballers to get pissed in a hotel?
     
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  43.  
    currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    Agree that we should have a no-fault compensation scheme, like TAC for all "accidents".
    Agree that without it, seriously injured people or dependants of people who die have no alternative but to sue.
    However I can see no justification for non-dependants to sue over a death. They have suffered no financial loss. Their grief is terrible, but no worse than the grief of people whose loved ones died of disease or accidents where they can't find anyone else to blame
     
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  44.  
    TJ

    TJ Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    An end to all hotel rooms with balconies I say. I've been saying it for years. They are too much of a risk and have no part in this world.
     
  45.  
    June daily watching

    June daily watching Dedicated Member

    Many hundreds of years of legal precedent call that a tort.
     
  46.  
    currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    I know that, but IIRC tort is common law and legislation can overturn common law. TAC and workcover (in Vic at least) have restricted common law rights.

    And while we are at it, exemplary damages should be paid to the state or a charity, not the plaintiff.
     
  47.  
    cin

    cin Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    This needs to be put into perspective
    Unless you want to ban any type of balcony higher than 2m off a bedroom and 4m from every other room then there is no consistency in any arguement that the window should not be 'removable/able to be opened fully'
    It is no harder to climb over a balcony rail than it is to climb out a window when the railing height/sill height are the same.
    This guy did not fall backwards out a window that had a low sill height. He climbed out a window after removing / fully opening it.
    If he had climbed over the balcony railing and fallen to his death who exactly would the negligence be attributed to, the person who climbed over the railing or the hotel with fully compliant balcony railings?
     
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  48.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Balcony are treated differently because the railing is obvious and has specific construction rules designed to minimise risk.

    If the balcony rails are fully compliant then the distribution of blame is weighted accordingly.

    Windows have different sets of rules and consequence and actions have different weightings.
     
  49.  
    cin

    cin Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    Yes but those different rules are based around the fact children in bedrooms push furniture up against Windows and fall out after climbing up. I'm has nothing to do with the ability of adults to remove or fully open windows. The reason the BCA rules simply require a key able lock to prevent full opening is because it is assumed adults are capable of realising the risk, unlike children. We don't design the BCA to be safe for the sloshed
     
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  50.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Whilst window rules are indeed derived from child eventualities the BCA is focussed on reducing risk for all.