Ski Travel Insurance

Discussion in 'Passport' started by wat17, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Addicted Member
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    I disagree. This is from Fast Cover's website:


    Heli skiing, "advanced terrain" (who's seen that as an exclusion before?) and snowmobiling all have green ticks as well.

    Fast Cover also have sleep apnœa on their list of automatically covered pre-existing medical conditions. One other insurer wanted $140 if I declared it. Hard not to do if seeking specific item cover for a CPAP machine.

    Rental car excess isn't covered in the standard Fast Cover policy but is an optional add-on at levels of $5K or $8K cover. I had an issue with AAMI on this as their cover was something ridiculously low like $2K and no option to increase it.

    I'll have to go back and re-read the Fast Cover PDS again but there didn't seem to be any weasel words unreasonably limiting off-piste. It may be in bounds only but any off-piste I'm looking at will be in bounds so not an issue for me.
     
  2. Beerman

    Beerman Dedicated Member
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    Good work @Marty_McSly, happy to be proved wrong. The website posted earlier in the thread does not put ticks in the off piste coverage in the table shown. No in depth investigation was conducted by me, just went on what was shown on their website
     
  3. Olgreg

    Olgreg Dedicated Member
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    I will have a look at Fast Cover. FWIW AAMI confirmed that cover is for the entire trip regardless of resort boundaries. I did not ask about heli.
     
  4. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman Addicted Member
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    Unless it's in writing .....beware .
     
  5. Zimboo

    Zimboo Addicted Member

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    More than beware, don't go there unless clarified by email.....................must be in writing. Even with ticks on graphics...........everyone must read terms and conditions to make sure you are covered for what you are doing.
     
  6. Heinz

    Heinz Old And Crusty
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    Yeah, note the asterisks... (which are in a much smaller font than below)



    *See Product Disclosure Statement for full terms, conditions, limits and exclusions that apply.
     
  7. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman Addicted Member
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    I had a quick read over the PDS , and looks pretty good .....for heli skiing .
     
  8. yowiepowah

    yowiepowah Active Member

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    Hi all, I'm following this thread with interest, as far as I am able to discern AAMI is the only insurer which does not specifically exclude death/injury concurring "outside (the) boundaries of a ski resort" whilst skiing/snowboarding. Am I correct in assuming the terrain beyond the gates in Niseko falls under this definition?
     
  9. Olgreg

    Olgreg Dedicated Member
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  10. Dave6

    Dave6 Dedicated Member
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    One thing I didn't like about the Fast Cover policy is the definition of pre-existing medical condition.

    b) A medical or dental condition that is currently being, or has been investigated, or treated by a health professional (including dentist or chiropractor) at any time in the past, prior to policy purchase;

    d) Any condition for which you have had surgery;
     
  11. Chillybin

    Chillybin Active Member

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    Fast cover is definitely within the resort boundaries only for "off piste" or with a guide outside boundaries. Cat and heli are covered. Rental car is covered but read the pds. From memory you have to select cdw and it obviously only covers the excess component. At this stage it's about my only option as I'm both heli and cat skiing. Luckily a lot of the skin tracks in Canada are "technically" within the resort boundaries and marked trails which I have in writing from Fast cover that it's covered based on the above. You'll find that the Niseko gates would almost certainly fall into this category also.
     
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  12. oreo

    oreo Dedicated Member
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    [QUOTE="Chillybin, post: 3152733, member: 6750]Luckily a lot of the skin tracks in Canada are "technically" within the resort boundaries[/QUOTE]

    Err, where are you skiing in Canada. Occasional boot pack, maybe.
     
  13. Chillybin

    Chillybin Active Member

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    Nelson BC. Ymir peak route is classed as a trail and requires both skinning and boot packing. Have it in writing from the insurer that it's covered after I emailed trail maps etc including topo. Won't give up my other secret spots but they're nearly all covered. Think powder triangle
     
  14. Beerman

    Beerman Dedicated Member
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    Have been looking at Insurance, but wanted feedback from others that have done similar, @Born2ski others??
    A japan trip coming up and was looking to hire a vehicle in Hakuba.
    All the pds i have looked at inc TID, AAMI, QBE say their policies are no replacement for a car hire policy, although they do provide vehicle excess cover. Can anyone add to this, or had to make a claim??
     
  15. Born2ski

    Born2ski Part of the Furniture

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    When I've rented in Japan it's been from Toyota. They include insurance with their vehicles but have a damage excess of ¥50,000($625) and a Non operation charge(NOC) of between ¥20000-¥50000.($250-$625). Most travel insurance plans should cover these excesses. Or if your prefer you can pay the "Exclusion of Liability Compensation fee" and bring the excess down to zero. I never bother with this fee since my travel insurance will cover the excess anyway.

    Here's the details. (in English) https://rent.toyota.co.jp/eng/guide/insurance.html

    I would expect other rental companies in Japan to have a similar scheme but you'd need to look at their details to be sure.
     
  16. Beerman

    Beerman Dedicated Member
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    Cheers B2S, i was looking at using a small car hire mob in Hakuba, not a large multi national but will still check them out.
     
  17. zac150

    zac150 Well-Known Member

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    I like the look of the fast cover policy except they only allow $1,500 for ski equipment, I have asked for confirmation of this otherwise the policy works for me.
     
  18. zac150

    zac150 Well-Known Member

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    Further to my above post I sought some clarification from both fact cover and no worries travel insurance and below are the responses:

    No worries:

    If you select a winter sports extension policy then we provide certain cover for skiing and snowboarding on or off-piste, including back country skiing or boarding. Our policies don’t require you to be accompanied by a guide and you are not required to be only within resort boundaries, however note we don’t cover extreme winter sports. For example ski- jumping / stunts / mountaineering /randonee, heli-skiing / boarding, ice hockey, speed skiing, cresta run or the use of bobsleighs or professional sports.

    Fast Cover:

    “...areas within the boundaries of a ski resort that are not:
    • groomed terrain; or
    • marked slopes; or
    • trails that are open, maintained, monitored and patrolled by the ski resort."

    On the next page it defines the Snow Sport Activities (page 7) which ARE covered:

    “Snow Sport Activities” means the following amateur activities that do not involve any form of racing, acrobatics, jumping, aerial, stunting or freestyle:
    • skiing, snowboarding, sledding, tobogganing, or tubing conducted on groomed ski slopes within ski resort boundaries;
    • skiing or snowboarding off-piste (but not backcountry);
    • heli-skiing;
    • snowcat skiing;
    • cross country skiing on groomed and marked trails;
    • glacier walking with hiking equipment under appropriate supervision;
    • snow shoeing on groomed and marked trails;
    • snowmobile riding on groomed and marked trails under appropriate supervision;
    • ice sailing."

    So, the short answer is yes you are covered for off-piste skiing as long as you're still within resort boundaries.

    To answer your second question I refer to our PDS again which defines “Luggage and Personal Effects” under Words with Special Meanings (page 5) as:

    “...any personal items owned by you and that you take with you, or buy, on your journey and which are designed to be worn or carried about with you. This includes items of clothing, personal jewellery, photographic and video equipment or personal computers, or electrical devices or portable equipment. However, it does not mean any cash, bank notes, currency notes, cheques, negotiable instruments, business samples or items that you intend to trade."

    Snow Sport Equipment (page 7) is defined as: "...skis, poles, boots, bindings, snowboards or ice skates."

    They are treated as two separate benefits which means your winter clothing would be covered under the luggage and personal effects limit of $7500, and your skis, boots and bindings would be covered under the snow sport equipment limit of $1500.

    $1,500 to cover my gear is to low, yep, I have home insurance but the excess is $500 and they take weeks to replace.

    So no worries it is.
     
  19. Olgreg

    Olgreg Dedicated Member
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    So I clarified cover through NAB card cover which is through QBE, i.e. pay at last $500 of the trip on the card.
    They covered for all off piste , out of bounds as long as not professional, and as long as you do not put yourself in circumstances that entail a risk to your personal safety.
    I pointed out that any skiing was a risk and asked them to clarify.
    They said that cover was denied if you went into areas with "closed" signs, or did not wear appropriate protective gears.
    I pointed out that I wore helmet, goggles and carried a transceiver. They said if that was standard for skiing, that was ok.
    Trouble with this stuff is that no-one in the insurance company sees to be a skier.
    Anyone had experience of claiming through card insurance for OOB?
     
  20. Heinz

    Heinz Old And Crusty
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    Concerned that they rate heli-skiing as extreme when it is much safer than people heading outside of ski area with no clue.
    And they bracket mountaineering and randonee when they are completely different. At least some polices add use of ropes as a qualifier.
     
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  21. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman Addicted Member
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    Try it out and get back to us ...... I will happily pay for my policy .
     
  22. oldgeezer

    oldgeezer Active Member

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    A quick call to the NAB Platinum credit card insurance number indicates it isn't too bad for a free add-on: covers any in-bound off piste, with no restriction referring to ages covered, sticking to named runs or if off a named run then being with a professional guide/instructor, as some polices specify. However the generic restriction about "intentionally or recklessly place yourself in circumstances, or undertakes activities, which pose a risk to your personal safety" would exclude OOB the agent said, on the basis that the ski area operators would have decided the area posed an enhanced level of risk.
     
  23. oreo

    oreo Dedicated Member
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    Read back in this thread, I've claimed from QBE (through ANZ Cc but likely similar terms to NAB) the hospital and flight costs of coming home early (for surgery in Aus) for a backcountry accident. No issues, claim process is the same as any other insurance (same as if you bought a policy from QBE). Recommend for coverage and value.
     
  24. TDS

    TDS Active Member

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    I just went with insureandgo...

    Partner and I, 22 Days in Japan, including wintersport.

    Including herniated disc, broken wrist (have a plate in my wrist from nasty fall last year at buller) and a couple of other things at no extra cost.

    $409.00

    Pretty happy, I would have liked to have off piste cover without a guide, but no other company would actually insure me with a herniated disc, so I consider it the lessor of two evils...
     
  25. TDS

    TDS Active Member

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    Sorry, $94.00 worth of medical premiums for myself ...
     
  26. gmanpadre

    gmanpadre Active Member
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    I use a combination of the following which costs about 370AUD for annual cover:

    https://www.bupaglobal.com/en/travel-insurance 140 USD

    http://www.ffcam.fr/assurance.html 124 EU

    BUPA covers me pretty much for all snow sports (including heli/cat skiing) except where specialized climbing equipment is being used and the French Alpine Club insurance covers me if I am using climbing equipment, but not heli/cat skiing interestingly enough. The FAC medical cover is capped at 300,000 EU which is better than the Austrian Alpine Club cover that I previously had.
    I've had a pretty good read of both insurance policies and am pretty happy with the coverage but if anyone else picks up any exclusions that might apply it would be good to know!
    I also have the insurance that comes along with my Jetstar Platinum Mastercard that I pay the airline tickets with for normal day to day travel insurance.
     
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  27. gmanpadre

    gmanpadre Active Member
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    Here are the PDF of the policy details.
     

    Attached Files:

  28. Chondro

    Chondro Dedicated Member
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    I did post this in the other travel insurance thread, but will post here too.

    Just had a friend look at ouch insurance.

    Noticed they have changed now and as per (https://travel.qbe.com/qbe/QBETravel?getDoc=true&documentid=44553) document on their website

    Now , what worries me is that @LMB and others who have emailed and received replies to say that they are still covered, even in august this year.
    If you look at the above tho the date they have on their site is the 15th of april.

    i received this from them on the 22/06/2016
    I've just emailed them to get back to me in writing that i am still covered for all off piste / back country in the event something happens. Will respond with the follow up

    Anyone know who actually covers off piste / back country unguided anymore? Do noworries / AAMI?
     
  29. Olgreg

    Olgreg Dedicated Member
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    AAMI confirmed all ok for off piste, oob, cat ski for me
     
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  30. Chondro

    Chondro Dedicated Member
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    No worries also confirmed back country and off piste
    I'm awaiting an email back from ouch to make sure we are still covered due to the above. Will look at AAMI/Noworries otherwise
     
  31. LMB

    LMB Part of the Furniture
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    I think if we have an email confirming cover specifically that any claims will be processed, and if they didn't come to the party I'd take them to court!

    The reality is most of us who are heading off piste, OOBs, on heli trips etc AND making efforts to ensure we have adequate insurance, are also taking adequate steps to make sure we don't end up in trouble and it's some serious bad luck when we do need to claim. It's bizarre that so many company's are tightening the PDS as it applies to these activities.

    Ahh well looks like it AAMI for me for this seasons trips.
     
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  32. Pez

    Pez Active Member
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    Sounds like SkiBeach is on to it with insurance.
     
  33. Chondro

    Chondro Dedicated Member
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    Follow up on ouch RE:- no only covering groomed piste runs now.

     
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  34. LMB

    LMB Part of the Furniture
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    Thanks for the clarification.

    Bit confusing to bear a date when discussions 'began' rather than 'effective as of'.

    But looks like Ouch have now lost a group of customers.
     
  35. Chondro

    Chondro Dedicated Member
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    Yeah, You would think they would have just put the effective date.
    Seems suss
     
  36. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman Addicted Member
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    If you took out the policy before the rules changed you would have been ok , or so I was told .
    I used Ouch for my last Alaska trip , but went with Fast Cover this time . I paid around $1000 for Nov'16 - May'17
    Fast Cover is underwritten by Allianz also.
     
  37. smackies

    smackies Addicted Member
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    Inneresting.

    I have the BUPA/Austrian Alpine Club double and have had for the last few years. Will look into FAC.

    I found out this year that BUPA won't cover the search part of search and rescue. But as long as you know where you are, they will come save you...
     
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  38. johnski

    johnski Active Member

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    AAMI doesn't cover mountain or rock climbing using guides and also excludes abseiling so no good for my Europe / la grave trip,

    Fast cover only covers offpiste that is not backcountry (backcountry defined as out of resort boundaries)

    Insurance for less still covers offpiste skiing, glacier skiing, ski touring, ski randonee and mountaineering but starting to get more expensive with all the add ons (insurance way more expensive this year with these add ons vs. last same policy last year).
     
  39. fro5t1

    fro5t1 Active Member

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    hi to all, sorry for repeating the same old q's.

    I have to attend the US 4 times over the next 2 years for roughly 14 days at a time with the activities including an avy course (b/c in utah), a rock rescue roping module in utah, an alpine rescue module on rainier. add to that some extra trips (5-10 days alpine work in the sthn alps NZ) and a whistler trip (3weeks with guided/unguided side country + heli).

    i've used BUPA-IHI for the whistler b/c stuff before but never had to claim and know that they don't do ropes. insure 4 less exclude US+Canada for bc/ropes. Global Rescue seems like overkill, have had no experience with the AAC/UK & can't read the French Alpine club website.

    Add a pre-existing injury (i mean really... is there anyone out there over 30 who skis without an undamaged knee???) to muddy the water a bit further...

    my question is has anybody here had to make a claim? if so, how did you go? like a previous poster stated- trying to do the right thing but the insurance companies just get tighter & tighter.
     
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  40. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    NZ alpine club insurance can be obtained to cover Australians climbing in NZ
     
  41. fro5t1

    fro5t1 Active Member

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    thanks for the info climberman
     
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  42. Chillybin

    Chillybin Active Member

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    All guided backcountry is covered by fastcover. Being touring, cat and heli
     
  43. johnski

    johnski Active Member

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    Can you point me in direction of where this is in the fast cover pds, have just reviewed again and couldn't see this. Could see the general snowsports definition (below) plus adventure pack add on which covers ropes but couldn't see offpiste/backcountry outside of resort boundary with guides as being mentioned /ok anywhere...

    Snow Sport Activities” means the following amateuractivitiesthatdonotinvolveanyform of racing, acrobatics, jumping, aerial, stunting or freestyle:

    • skiing, snowboarding, sledding, tobogganing, or tubing conducted on groomed ski slopes within ski resort boundaries;

    • skiing or snowboarding off-piste (but not backcountry);

    • heli-skiing;

    • snowcat skiing;

    • cross country skiing on groomed and marked trails;

    • glacier walking with hiking equipment under appropriate supervision;

    • snow shoeing on groomed and marked trails
    • snowmobile riding on groomed and marked trails under appropriate supervision; • ice sailing.
     
  44. Chillybin

    Chillybin Active Member

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    I have it in writing. I think somewhere in the pds it notes covered with guides. It doesn't specifically mention backcountry but upon a phone call clarification was made and an email confirmed. Though this was the same company that told me my Heli skiing had to be done inbounds at first.......
     
  45. Chillybin

    Chillybin Active Member

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    It's too hard to post pics here but. I've just read the emails I got back from fast cover. It says " you can ski off piste without a guide" this is referring to the inbounds or marked trails off piste. Outside of these areas a guide is required if you are to be insured. It clearly mentions "without a guide" and the clarification I was given was as I stated above
     
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  46. gmanpadre

    gmanpadre Active Member
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    Try the BUPA Global and FAC combo, you can sign up with FAC when you arrive in France. I was signed up in Chamonix by the lovely Rachel, I asked a lot of questions about the fine print ;), still the most pleasant insurance transaction I've had. Or use google translate on their website, works ok. Annual cover for most mountain pursuits for under 400.
     
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  47. Dumph

    Dumph Active Member

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    https://www.worldnomads.com/


    World Nomads have some coverage but it is a bit limited, must be with a professional, qualified guide (and we know this is debatable). Bit worried I won't be able to do any acrobatics.

    "You can be covered to go back country skiing if you add this activity as an extra on the plan you choose (Standard or Explorer). However, there is a condition that you must be with a professional, qualified and licensed guide or operator when you are in the back country.

    You must also not be going into any areas that are marked as closed or out of bounds by the local authorities. You’re also not covered to race or do acrobatics, and there’s no cover for search and rescue if you get lost on the mountain."
     
  48. globewanderer

    globewanderer Active Member

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    Additional information for anyone interested on No Worries PDS clarifications:

    Email #1:
    "Our policy covers off-piste skiing and snowboarding. Including off-piste activity outside resort boundaries (back Country) We do not require you to be with a guide.

    Our policy does exclude cover for Extreme winter sports. This is including (but not limited to) ski‐ jumping/stunts/ mountaineering/randonee, heli‐skiing/ boarding, ice hockey, speed skiing, cresta run or the use of bobsleighs or skeletons.

    Our policy does not specifically exclude Cat-skiing. Even so, it is reasonable to expect that this activity will not be covered. Our policy excludes cover for the similar activity of Heli-skiing and for mountaineering/randonee (back country skiing and snowboarding with specific equipment to allow access to country not serviced by a lift network.)"

    So I emailed back asking to confirm that if you had to bootpack/splitboard/snowshoe to go anywhere else that you can't get to directly off the lifts that it would not be covered. This is the second response:

    Email #2:
    "Our policy does not exclude back-country skiing outright. Certain types of back country skiing are excluded on the basis of our policies Extreme winter sports exclusion. This includes heli-skiing, heli-boarding, jumps, stunts and Randonee.

    We contacted our senior management recently to seek clarification around what back country activity would and would not be considered Randonee. They confirmed that Randonee includes backcountry skiing activity that is not assessable via the lift network or, that requires special equipment (eg.splitboards) to access.

    We understand that some backcountry skiing requires the use of split boards or snow-shoes. Unfortunately, this form of skiing/ snowboarding is not covered under our policy."

    Seems like everyone is tightening up on BC policies. Will respond and ask for clarification on cover if they are guided tours.
     
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  49. bluestick

    bluestick Active Member
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    Insure 4 less want an extra $1500 to cover ski and backcountry for 3 weeks. I know shit happens but that's getting a bit steep Is it too many people claiming? Are we in a world where we have to really just take care and manage risk ourselves and take a punt on the odds?
     
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  50. Heinz

    Heinz Old And Crusty
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    Yeah, it all gets very murky, but given the increasing number of people heading out away from ski areas without a clue, their reticence is sadly somewhat understandable.
     
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