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Entry Fees Up again

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Roj, Jun 12, 2013.

  1.  
    sjm

    sjm Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the pic of the original hut. I was a frequent visitor to the second incarnation, but haven't yet seen the third.
  2.  
    stridercdh

    stridercdh Well-Known Member

    Mount St Gwinear is in fact still free this year. I know where I'll be skiing [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  3.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    Are the trails groomed? Roads cleared? Toilets heated? Ski patrol? (I don't know - never been there)

    LM is cheaper to ski this year than last. Last year the entry was $50 on weekends and then you still had to pay a trail fee. This year it's $51 with no trail fee (or $43 if you book online).
  4.  
    stridercdh

    stridercdh Well-Known Member

    Yes the trails are groomed. Roads are cleared by Parks Vic. They do have a heated toilet block/shelter. St Gwinear Ski Patrol operates every weekend of the season. Also there is onsite toboggan hire, with ski, snowshoe and chain hire at Erica. Not bad value.
  5.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    Fair enough, but I imagine it's fairly rudimentary. Which is fine. But the general tobogganing public wants all the fancy stuff - sealed car parks, warm cafeterias and other spaces out of the weather etc. They want people they can ask dumb questions of. They want a phone number that answers all week long. They want a website. They want cams and weather reports. They want snow-making. etc. I don't know if they really want face painting and grown men running around in animal costumes, but that seems to all the rage these days for kids.
  6.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member

    Do they have a groomer up at Mt St Gwinear or is it like a rudimentary skid do with blade etc.

    Always had respect for MSG its just a nice experience up there.

    Pleasing to see cost is kept low making day easier on peoples budgets.

    Hope Erica is getting some trade out of the snow season.
    Pub always looked good on way home from MSG.
    Parks running a like ski resort....well that's something.......
  7.  
    chriscross

    chriscross Well-Known Member

    Just for everyone's info, it's worth being aware that Parks Vic had a reduced presence at Gwinear last year and that will most likely continue. I was lucky when the Parks guy turned up to clear a large tree blocking the road. Grooming sometimes happens, but not reliably and I would not want to count on it and turn up with a pair of skating skis, for example. Ski patrol consists of volunteers (good on them) who sometimes operate on week-ends. I would not want to depend on them turning up in an emergency. It's a great place to visit with touring gear but once you're over the back of the summit it's very much a backcountry destination, without the steeps. Hope to get there soon.
  8.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member

    How much further is Baw Baw than Lake Mt driving from Melb.
    And how much is entrance cost to drive to Baw Baw Village.

    With diligent promotion would it be able to compete with LM for XC customers????
  9.  
    chriscross

    chriscross Well-Known Member

    BB is about half an hour further to drive but it's a much windier and generally more difficult drive than to LM. Entry fee is about the same. The issue, compared with XC at LM is one of trail grooming. Because BB management see downhill skiers and , increasingly, snowboaders as their main market, most of their effort goes into grooming downhill runs and setting up rails etc for boarders. XC trails are not regularly groomed so it's hard to predict what conditions will be like. It's ok if you are prepared to make your own way on some touring/tele type skis. But for groomed track skiing and especially for skating, LM is the way to go, when it's on. Let's hope they have a better year, starting soon.
  10.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member

    Last time I went to LM I had to park in lower carpark even though I told them I would be there to dark.
    Then I walked up rather than catching the bus cos I was pissed off.
    When I returned the bus driver said he had to stay till last car went out of SnowyHill Car Park and was happy that my car was the last out.

    I was not impressed having to catch any bus and being further from the my vehicle.

    Does Baw Baw park all visitor cars on the Mt or does it have a similar arrangement to bus up customers when its busy???

    Then its like everybody off the Mt by like 6pm????
    In days gone we just came and went when we wanted.So no more getting a few bottles and heading up there for a BBQ and beers at night...The Nanny State protecting everybody from them selves I guess....
  11.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    At LM, if you go on weekends, you have to get there early to park in the top car park (when the snow is good). Before about 9:30 you're assured of the top car park. Because there's no on-mountain accommodation, they have to wait until the last car is off the mountain. Any car that's still up there, they assume the person is lost so search and rescue must go out looking for them. Anyone who's camping overnight must lodge their intentions with the resort so they can excuse those cars. They lock the bottom gate each night, otherwise 4WD hoons get up there and wreak havoc on any piece of snow they can find.
  12.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member

    Thanks for info...u are providing good detail in regard to operations of Lake Mt. [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  13.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    I agree LM are very dedicated with their grooming just like they are at falls, they will go out grooming in afternoons also when the track gets messy with the many skiers & snowshoers (and silly people with boots who miss the skis & ss only sign) I remember after a big dump at falls last year I went out for a skate, it was not pretty, very slow and not enough height above the ground on those things. I still remember that loud squeaky sound from the snow.

    I might give MSG a go this season, it looks like a good mountain. Is its worth XC skiing at baw baw, i think theres only 10km that go around the outskirts of the resort?
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  14.  
    chriscross

    chriscross Well-Known Member

    BB has accommodation in lodges, apartments and a hotel, so it stays open and there is no carpark curfew. I've never seen a shuttle bus there like they use them at LM and Buller (that bus takes you a long way from your car and is a pita). I think they sometimes use a shuttle for people who don't want to fit chains for the final steep bit. I learned to avoid the Snowy Hill carpark many years ago and have also done that walk- good for mountain fitness, I reckon. But often in the early afternoon you can get into the top carpark because families with little kids and toboggans who arrived early have packed up their freezing, crying little ones and gone home. So if you can't get there early, don't bother or maybe go late. But, in general, LM is worth avoiding on busy weekends, if you can do it. Go BB or MSG.
  15.  
    chriscross

    chriscross Well-Known Member

    In response to TXC, there are several trails at BB which go beyond the 10km. village loop but they are only rarely groomed. These trails take you out onto the plateau and connect up with the MSG trails at several points on the Alpine Walking track. There is some very pleasant touring to be done out there and a few places where one can pull a few turns when conditions are right, Your new Madshus skis would go well out there.
  16.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    Nice, How long does it take to get to MSG from baw baw? is it doable in a return day trip? If conditions were good enough I wonder if you could skate it. I always go early to LM and get the top car park, It is amazing how many people come for a sight see/toboggan up there.
  17.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    My estimate (and I think it's conservative) is that 90% of LM visitors are snow-players, due mainly to its proximity to Melbourne.
  18.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    I'd agree with that 90%, I am also happy to see so many first timers going for group lessons on XC skis and giving it a go, its gotta be good for XC skiing.

    I was having a look around the forms about that little hut around the back of LM and noticed a photo with a snow gauge reading 70cm's, I've only been a few times to LM but how often does that happen? the last times i've been its been at 10cm,15cm... and thats it. That is amazing, surely a base could be held for a few weeks with that amount, last year the snow would only hold up for a few days
  19.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    2010 I think, it got up to a metre, or very close to.
  20.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    Wow, nice. was that just one freak fall or a build up over a while?
  21.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    2010 was a reasonable year at LM, unlike the northern resorts. It was a gradual buildup during the season, and a gradual decline at the end.
  22.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    Was last year a good season for LM? in comparison with other years, I'm not sure what to expect after last year
  23.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    No. Fairly poor. The mountain was going to close winter operations at the end of the July, but the forecast was for snow a couple of days before the first weekend in August, so they kept it open for that. Snowed well but on bare ground - no base to hold it, so it melted after the weekend. The following Thursday/Friday it dumped again. This cycle continued every week through August and ended up saving the season.
  24.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    That was a really frustrating season, I remember looking at grass during july waiting patiently for snow. thanks for clarifying that, I was scared it was always like that at LM all the time because I'd only seen it that year. Lets hope for a good season this year.
  25.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    The last really good year was 2004. 2005 & 2006 were very poor. 2007 & 2008 were average. 2009 poor to average, 2010 - almost good, 2011-12 poor to average.
  26.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    Problem this year is we've got the slow start, I wonder when we'll see enough snow to ski on at LM, the temps look just cold enough in the coming week, hopefully the moisture comes through. I wonder if these higher sea surface temps will make low elevation snow falls difficult this season
  27.  
    chriscross

    chriscross Well-Known Member

    Sea surface temps are a worry, IMO, although dedicated weather nerds might have different interpretations. 2010 was a good year at LM; I was training for my first 42km. Kangaroo Hoppet and got in enough good sessions with Dave, instructor from Canada to be able to complete the event (slowly). June is not a slow start- had many years when I had booked school holiday accommodation in Marysville, then wondering, "Will there be snow?" Patience.
  28.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    LM generally doesn't get a skiable cover until about the second week of the school holidays. Some years of course, are an exception. eg: 2010.

    Chris, there was very little snow at Falls and Perisher until later in the season, & if I remember correctly, they had a shortened Hoppet course and had to farm and move snow to make the 2010 course. All the while, LM had good snow.
  29.  
    sidetrack

    sidetrack Dedicated Member

    I think Lake Mt has lost its soul and I will never go back there to ski. Sad considering so many of us learnt to ski there on skis with orange side walls.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  30.  
    slalom pete

    slalom pete Well-Known Member

    All this blah blah talk about a couple of crappy so called ski resorts.Why don't ya just ski in NSW resorts,much cheaper entry fee,better snow,easier driving etc etc.
  31.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    Your just jealous Falls is the home of XC skiing in AUS and home of the national team. I love Victoria, I can put up with the lower elevations. LM's still a great little XC resort despite some of its negatives. I would only XC ski once a year if it wasn't for LM, I'm sure it's done great for XC in Australia
  32.  
    currawong

    currawong Part of the Furniture Season Pass Holder

    for track skiing, nothing in NSW compares with Falls
    touring is another matter
  33.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    One of the best things about LM is how close it is to Melbourne. You can wake up on a Sunday morning and over your 8 am coffee suddenly decide that you want to ski today. Finish breakfast, hop in the car and you're on the snow by 10am. Try that from Sydney!
  34.  
    slalom pete

    slalom pete Well-Known Member

    So you guys really think it's okay to pay exhorbitant prices for the privilege of skiing on crap snow.
  35.  
    weerab

    weerab Dedicated Member

    try that from Altona!
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  36.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    Move to Ringwood [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  37.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    I've got to drive there from the coast, very frustrating takes at least 3 1/4 hrs. I hope to move to Warburton or somewhere similar one day, the coast is no use to me. Someone should finish that stupid ring road, been 70-80km/h for years
  38.  
    sidetrack

    sidetrack Dedicated Member

    Who the flamboyant_expletive wants to live there?
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  39.  
    Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Part of the Furniture

    It's still not that great following the building of East Link and the Ringwood bypass. You've still got the crawling on the Maroondah through Lilydale to endure.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  40.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    Good point, st. Well, any place along the eastern freeway then.
    Yes edge, definitely need a Lilydale bypass and double lanes through the YV, so those bloody vineyard owners stop their 80kph protest because they want the speed limit lowered for their drunken customers [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  41.  
    weerab

    weerab Dedicated Member

    I always wanted to live in Eltham or near but wife was from Altona and it was cheaper so.... I have a lot of family in Berwick so that would have been the way to go. However I think Altona is great plenty of open space and the bay, what's an extra 30 mins anyway!
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  42.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member

    Falls Ck Management and its devotees are doing ok..

    There appears to be a community feel about all things around Falls Ck and Bogong Highplains.
    Even Parks Vic seem to be doing there bit to be friendly!!!!

    When Falls Ck did away with trail fees they improved their image heaps...
    And they can see importance of all year activity promotion...

    F.Ck and Bogong Highplains now probably centre of Australian Universe for XC.

    At least Falls Ck Management seeing big picture now not just 3mths of Lifts/runs......
  43.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    Yes. Falls dumped their trail fees 12 months (or it may have been 2 years) after they made an attempt to raise their trail fees to more than the amount permitted by state parliament. They were forced to give 2 days fee free skiing to all-comers as part of the reparations. Lake Mountain were also told they had to, but if they did, they never advertised it. So did FC stop charging in protest (saying the cost of collection did not warrant them charging), or did they do it because they found it was a better system? Anyway, no Vic resorts now charge a trail fee.
  44.  
    TeleXC

    TeleXC Well-Known Member

    From YMCA windy corner FB, their new sign, they sure are proud of XC up there:
    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  45.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member

    What as a matter of interest is the cost of Track(XC) grooming at FallsCk for a season.
    Plant maintenance servicing
    Fuel
    Wages to operator.

    I can see that this costs money but is it much in the overall costs of the snow season.
    Couple guys and couple groomers that are nor subjecting their machinery to the operating levels required in keeping snow off roads and carparks...

    Are groomer operators performing other duties when trails are touched up???
  46.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Commercial Member

    Hoppet course prep would cost a mint, and would probably be included in those costs, if they're available.
  47.  
    Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Dedicated Member

    I can see that they are skilled operators.
    But appears that most trails get done in one day with these guys driving at say 10km/hour....and then they may leave them for a few days before a touch up or they go back over and rake the snow behind them fairly quickly....

    Groomers are a good thing to see at say 4pm when you are coming back from P.Valley pulling a toboggan with gear:makes life a breeze..