Cardrona to install NZ's most pointless lift

Discussion in 'New Zealand' started by Draizuh, Aug 11, 2016.

  1.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    loals

    I find the investment to be pointless when you could put in an 8 seater chair instead. Its a gimmick. I dont have an issue with the investment, i find the lift type to be pointless.

    The saddle chair didnt change all that much.
    [​IMG]

    Roundhill barely operates that tow... And there season is short as it is..

    Id probably say that they last decent developments of actually new terrain would be Curvey basin at Remarkables and the Valley View at Cardrona.

    Futhermore this lift is a replacement for the beginner slope, its not opening any new terrain.
     
    :thumbs: essjaywhy likes this.
  2.  
    Zimboo

    Zimboo Addicted Member

    Have to agree, they must have OS non skier patronage lined up to validate operating gondolas / with chairs in that beginner area. More Chinese restaurants opening soon.
     
    :thumbs: craighelo likes this.
  3.  
    mauricem

    mauricem Active Member

    What year was that from? That saddle chair was a trip to nowhere except the tbar!

    Interesting placement of tbar in home basin, maybe this was pre full on snow making so home basin could still operate when the lower half was shot??
     
  4.  
    GlenH

    GlenH Active Member Season Pass Silver

    I think the Saddle Chair may have been the old main chair?

    ..... and I recall T2 was sometimes used for race training.
     
  5.  
    Heinz

    Heinz Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    Correct. Saddle chair was the old main chair. That had previosly replaced the old T1 which went to just above the base of T2 - hence the name and placement. T2 was kept in for a year or two after the 6 seater went in pretty much for access to race training.

    That trail map would have been a couple years after they put the 6 seater in - maybe 10-15 years ago?
     
  6.  
    RedBeard_Boarder

    RedBeard_Boarder Active Member


    You should add this old map to https://skimap.org/SkiAreas/view/2429
     
  7.  
    snowgum

    snowgum Dedicated Member

    Having just returned from the Qtwn/Wanaka fields, count me in on the positive side.

    I see replacement of the slow old & cramped McD Chair as a big positive for Cardona. Even my 7 year old - who complained about speed and stopping frequency of the current lift - can see the merits of the new chair / pods (they have a demo pod in the base area).

    More generally: It's worth restating here, as to how during the last 10-12 years, NZ fields have significantly improved and modernised, especially with respect to:
    - new, often high speed quads (& even a six at TC);
    - new resort bases (CP & Remarks) and much larger general dining areas;
    - significantly more snowmaking (although Aussie has done this too);
    - improved access roads wider, smoother & more rail protection & in some cases the ability to drop off younger kids right outside the resort base (ie Cardi/CP); &
    - simple things like plentiful, affordable & roomy gear lockers or storage service (Cardi) or the ease of buying half-day tickets.

    Admittedly, much of the infrastructure came off a fairly low base. But accommodation aside, I think in many ways The big 4 Q/W fields have leapfrogged Aussie in terms of quality and the experience felt. They seem more eager to please overall (maybe thus perception is enhanced by being an Aussie on a 10-14 day holiday!)

    I still love my Aussie skiing (& it's simpler to go XC here without the Avalanche risk & with trees for shelter etc...) but some of infrastructure is looking somewhat tired, old & under-loved & with a lack of true competition, I don't see this changing in a hurry.

    Having just experienced some very good NZ skiing (& snow conditions), I reckon Australian resorts should probably be looking over their shoulder more than they do. As a case in point, This trip I bumped into a lot of young Aussie couples taking their first ski holiday in NZ, rather than Oz. While traditionally it's been accepted that Aussie fields bleed patronage to OS at the high/skilled end, I'm not sure they're so concerned about loosing the beginner market.

    ...but perhaps with all this funky new stuff (yes - including Chondalas! ⛷❄️) they should!
     
  8.  
    DPS Driver

    DPS Driver Dedicated Member

    Re the Remarks Gondola.

    Having family entrenched in the tourist business in Queenstown for the past 40+ years (no I'm not a Kiwi) I can confidently say that this Gondola is betting on greater patronage out of the ski season.

    Even though Queenstown is a winter skiing destination, winter is the slow period for overseas tourists. The spending potential of a great deal of tourists into Queenstown would not blink at $75. The Skyline Gondola would have been a good test case for any future gondola developments. So I'm sure they've krunched the numbers and their returns would definitely not be reliant on skiing business alone.
     
  9.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    Considering that someone who used to run skyline is working for porter, yes its not just for skiing. but its accessing the remarkables for skiing. You could chuck a gondola up any mountain in queenstown and tourists would go up it. You could charge people 25 bucks to drive up deer park heights/peninsula hill and they would pay it. But 75 bucks isnt competitive to skyline. 33 bucks to go up the gondola and back. 55 bucks to go up the gondola and 5 luge runs. Thats bugger all. But if you are talking 75 bucks return for a gondola up to the remarks, something you can just drive up.. its not really worth it..

    I have no problem with investment, im all for it. i just dont think its going to stop the emergency stops. Ive only skied one day at cardies this year, i think i did about 5 laps of captains, and there was an emergency stop each time...
    Just because its detachable doesnt mean people can load it.
     
  10.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    Just had a look on there and this map shows how pretty much everything was still accessible at TC before the current saddle quad, just with a good old fashioned traverse :)

    [​IMG]
     
  11.  
    snowgum

    snowgum Dedicated Member

    Howdy, I Did a traverse myself from the bottom of the closest chutes to the left of the chair (skiers right).

    I chose not to take kicker skins for my Tele skis - couldn't be bothered taking skis off to walk - it wasn't far but quite an effort. Certainly reminded me how much cushier it is on chairs than my old BC days!

    ...seriously it would be nice if Saddle chair was placed down the hill and finished maybe 50m lower but that might lure too many intermediate skiers into some gnarly terrain. So what's in Saddle is fine for all but the busiest times (don't go to NZ on NZ schl hols).

    But For the future (as per Thredbo), I'd like to see a chair that covered perhaps the top 300m of the main chair. The snow is often very ordinary near the TC base -even by Vic stds and would make fore enjoyable skiing for early/late in the season and for poor seasons. My 2 cents. It's the same for Thredbo too if not worse - so not unique to TC. And Valley View Cardi is just an added bonus for good snow.
     
  12.  
    Telestrom

    Telestrom Addicted Member

    Some pics when the I was at TC in 2003 with the old chair and t-bars.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    T-bar in the main basin in the background. It was popular for slalom training.

    [​IMG]

    Another view of the t-bar with the old hut at the bottom.
     
  13.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    Awesome shots @Telestrom cover looks incredible!!!
    That old Chair is waiting for its new lease on life at Ohau as the 2nd peak Chair. They just need a bumper season. So if you guys are ever in NZ, go ski ohau!!!
     
  14.  
    N0frilz

    N0frilz Active Member

    Think you'll find Ohau dumped that old pod double chair from tc.....

    And your comment about tc I guess the motatpu chutes are not in bounds now....
     
  15.  
    Red_switch

    Red_switch Part of the Furniture 30 Day Pass

    @Telestrom those 2003 pics, are they from September? '03 was a pretty skint season in the Southern lakes, until sept, when it seemed to not stop snowing.
     
  16.  
    Dumph

    Dumph Active Member

    Same as 2016?
     
  17.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    http://www.ohau.co.nz/ohau/2nd_Peak_Chair/
    Whoops they have a double from cardrona... same difference.
     
  18.  
    RichardP

    RichardP Active Member

    So wheres the old refurbished quad going. Facebook cardrona implys its going into storage ..... arcadia ..
     
  19.  
    person s

    person s Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    there's one in Zermatt above Sunnegga
    it wasn't very busy when I was there so I always did the cable car
    the weather was ok so the chair would have been no problem
     
  20.  
    ScottGN

    ScottGN Dedicated Member Season Pass Silver

    McDougalls has gone...
    [​IMG]
     
    :thumbs: Draizuh likes this.
  21.  
    sourmash

    sourmash Well-Known Member

    Stop flying planes to NZ, USA & Japan!
     
  22.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    Look at all that new terrain!
     
  23.  
    Heinz

    Heinz Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

  24.  
    Heinz

    Heinz Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    I actually experienced a chondola for the first time in January at the base at Lienz Hochstein in Osttirol, Austria.

    Didn't realise it at first - just saw gondolas so assumed it was a regular gondola, then lined up and saw a chair on the other side which initially confused my - thought I was in the wrong place, until a gondola turned up onthe side I was standing.
    There were 2 lines, chairs left, gondolas right and they alternated. Used the gondola first time, then just used the chair.

    I struggled to see the point of it though. It was very short, much shorter than a regular gondola and it only took you part of the way up. Then had to skate to the next chair. Lienz Hochstein is basically a town ski area which hosts world cup slalom and giant slalom races, so possibly this was to allow spectators to ride the gondola up?
     
  25.  
    Froff Life

    Froff Life Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    It's a bit of an expensive novelty really, but increasing the lifts capacity by 150% is awesome, means people will be spread out more over the mountain on weekends.
     
  26.  
    LMB

    LMB Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    Not that it's an issue for Cardrona but by using a chondola instead of a chair in an otherwise fully accessible chain of transportation to the top means foot passengers can also use it.

    I'm thinking of Zermatt (Sunnega/Rothorn) - Funicular -> Chondola -> Ropeway.
    Having foot passengers be able to enjoy (and service) the mountain alongside skiers and boarders brings a special kind of vibrancy.
     
  27.  
    pedub

    pedub Active Member

    Does anyone here really ski this lift anyway? Really just for beginners
    I'd sometimes take the gondola on foot, or the chair. Head over to Arcadia or Captains from the top. Increasing capacity has got to be a positive. Also the old chair always had piles of noobs lying everywhere, this should help.
     
    :thumbs: Dumph and essjaywhy like this.
  28.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    Foot passengers to the top of the learners slope and do what?? There is nothing up there. Unless they build a specific "viewing area" on the extremely slight rise above the terminal its a 2 minute gondola ride for nothing. If people were desperate for a gondola theres been one in queenstown for like 50 years.

    A replacement of whitestar to a 6 or an 8 would have been a far more useful upgrade.
     
  29.  
    Zimboo

    Zimboo Addicted Member

    Lotsa earthworks going on at the base - looking at the cam. Hope the learners covered carpet doesn't fall down the new steep drop off. Bitta rain and the carpet might get swept away.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  30.  
    pedub

    pedub Active Member

    So cool to see this!
    Would have stayed untracked a bit longer in those days
     
    :thumbs: Telestrom likes this.
  31.  
    pedub

    pedub Active Member

    Bring on the remarkables to town gondola! :p
     
  32.  
    Call_me_Ishmael

    Call_me_Ishmael Active Member

    Terrain Park access
     
  33.  
    LMB

    LMB Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    You must have missed my first 7 words.
    It seems stupid for Cardrona.
    But Chondolas are awesome else where, for the reason that I mentioned.
     
  34.  
    Dumph

    Dumph Active Member

    Still think (wishfully) that they are investing that much in the infrastructure to open up Soho Basin and beyond for the longer term, big picture plan. Small amount of earthworks would give you access to the other side of the hill from the top of the new lift and you have all that capacity to get people over there quickly. Otherwise the Chondola doesn't make a lot of sense snow or economic wise? At least they have a development focus and looking to up the game. Now all they have to do is merge on a reasonable season pass with TC (more wishful thinking).
     
  35.  
    Heinz

    Heinz Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    You'd like to think they will get there one day, when you consider that in Austria you various multi day & season passes covering 20+ ski areas (Salzburg, Tirol).
     
  36.  
    Froff Life

    Froff Life Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Installing a lift on the backside of Cardrona would open up so much more terrain. I have no idea what the area is called, but Its easily seen from the top of the new lift.
     
  37.  
    Red_switch

    Red_switch Part of the Furniture 30 Day Pass

    https://www.sohobasin.com/
     
  38.  
    Froff Life

    Froff Life Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

  39.  
    DPS Driver

    DPS Driver Dedicated Member

    It does become a unique marketing tool. I can't see the use of it like most here who know Cardrona. Yes perhaps future expansion into Soho Basin but I don't think that was their reasoning.
    I'd say it's an updated lift and the value will come in it's marketing to family and relative newcomers to skiing.
     
  40.  
    Dumph

    Dumph Active Member

  41.  
    Call_me_Ishmael

    Call_me_Ishmael Active Member

    Oh yeah, that's got Soho expansion stamped all over the bullwheel
     
    :thumbs: Dumph likes this.
  42.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    First of all, its got nothing to do with soho. Infact Cardrona arent co-operating at all with soho expansion going forward.
    Second of all, the trail from behind Mc Dougalls to Soho is uphill.
    Thirdly the area behind mc dougalls doesnt hold rideable snow.

    [​IMG]

    Any expansion into soho basin as a connection from cardrona will have to come from the top of Captains chair, and the resource consent for the installation of a new chair in soho basin says that it will terminate on the ridge near to the top of captains basin.
     
    :thumbs: DPS Driver likes this.
  43.  
    Dumph

    Dumph Active Member

    Pretty sure you could drop into the Soho basin off the back of McDougalls. Not sure what you mean by the area behind McDougalls doesn't hold rideable snow? Always seems to have plenty when I've been there, more than the front side usually.
     
  44.  
    Call_me_Ishmael

    Call_me_Ishmael Active Member

    Okay
    I may have not quite visualised where the new chair drop-off is
    I thought that pic showed it further up the hill and more towards Captains at the start of the ridge above the access cat trail over to Captains
    On the other hand I don't quite understand the "Soho rideable snow" comment
     
  45.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    There area between willow basins and Soho basins doesnt hold enough rideable snow to be operated as a ski run, Its north facing, it bakes in the sun. what snow is there is horrible.

    The Cat skiing at soho basin only operates in the willow basins (the one where i have written willow basin is Big Willow, where the base is is little willow) and the Soho basin and the area is linked by the use of the cat. Soho has trails groomed from the summit of Mt Cardona (winter only) and several to the lunch hut which are also summer roads.

    also there is this [​IMG]

    You wouldnt spend a few million cutting a new access road from the cardrona valley road if you were dropping 15 million on a chondola would ya...
     
    :thumbs: DPS Driver likes this.
  46.  
    Dumph

    Dumph Active Member

  47.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    So??? Its pretty easy to take a photo after its snowed. See that face in the bottom left hand corner? thats what it looks like more often than not.
     
    :thumbs: craighelo likes this.
  48.  
    RichardP

    RichardP Active Member

    Unless you need the road and tract of land to put up the future valley to mountain base Gondola .....
     
  49.  
    Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

    Have a check of the Resource consents on edocs.. Nothing there anymore..
     
  50.  
    RichardP

    RichardP Active Member

    was from a discussion i had with a lawyer a few months back, hinted that remarkables were not the only one with a proposal....when I asked if it was linked to a new access road to soho, he laughed and said its a construction road not an access road...can but hope.

    on a side the top of the Chondola will roll over to the to the cat track that drops into SOHO will it not with a small amount of dozer work, and why are Soho looking at that large staging area behind the existing cardrona snow fence area??? RC indicated for construction, but seems excessive.