Bogong & Feathertop Access /Track reports etc.

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Ubiquitous Steve, Jul 4, 2016.

  1. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Below is an extract from the Greater Alpine National Park Management Plan which speaks directly on this point (Table 1.1 page 28).

    'Victorian Alps Centre proposed at Falls Creek dam wall area.
    No submissions commented directly but proposal altered. Falls Creek Master Plan proposes a similar centre within the resort, which will be supported. Proposal for a Victorian Alps Centre at the dam wall area removed. PV will collaborate on visitor facilities and park orientation at Windy Corner/dam wall area.'

    The proposal to build a visitor centre has been scrapped no doubt because they will let Falls Creek pay for it and can use the facility. At least they are thinking about saving tax payer dollars here. I have objected strongly to the FHAC but it will go ahead in some form, possibly not as flashy as the draft proposal. When I told a ranger in Omeo about the budget for track work alone he nearly fell over and said that would run their office for 6 years. Conversely an opposition MP said the amount was small and I guess in the scheme of a state budget $13.5M over a number of years is small but when you look at how poor the local PV offices are then it is hard to justify. DELWP on the other hand seem to be able to find lots of money. New buildings, fancy fire trucks ($180K each) which are used primarily to clean toilets, heavy machinery on tracks in contrast to PV who have to rely on volunteers sometimes because of an unexpected natural event. Speculation road to Camp creek was closed a few years back because of a large number of huge trees down. The local parks office could not afford to clear it and the local 4wd club came in to assist. Developing good relationships with communities is certainly the way forward for PV and it gives these communities a sense of ownership of their local park.
     
  2. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    That last last sentence is a really good management goal.

    So progress is being made on a visitor centre at least....I could understand why Falls Ck Management would want it so to drive further tourists to Falls Ck rather than Hotham.That centre at Sawpit Ck NSW Parks has to be one of the few things that pleases me in regard to KNP.
    If you want overseas tourists to come and use the Highplains then that's what you need...so maybe we will all see it in our lifetimes after all.
     
  3. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    The B.H.P. will never be a tourist place like Tidal River or Halls Gap are. That is IMO , a good thing.
     
  4. neilmny

    neilmny Active Member

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    If you are correct Mr Tee it is indeed a good thing as it is it already gets extremely busy on the big weekends.
    Tried to get a picture of Michell hut at Easter but could hardly see it for the swarms of tourists.
    Managed to get one with only 4 or 5 in it. I don't know what the go is but they seemed to be family groups and most were in shorts, runners and tee shirts..............:confused:
     
  5. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    And I was getting excited cos I thought they may have been considering a mini golf course at Tawonga Huts...called the Jaithmathangs Mini Golf Course.... Bears are squeeling that this black humour may fail to impress.....This will add tremendously to the Iconic Walk Draft Plan we feel...o_O
     
  6. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    I know those people won't be at Michell hut in August . That means there is more room for my tent in winter :).We once saw a ;) Corn Flakes kind of family of three try to walk up to Michell hut from Camp Creek Gap . They turned back quite quickly. None of them had suitable footwear or anything o_O.
    I find that the Fainters don't get heavy rubber neck tourist influxes. Weston's hut or MUMC hut also seem to be far away enough to keep away the crowds so only fit outdoors addicts rock up.When I was up at the BHP in late Jan. '17 a bush walking club had swarmed over Fitzgerald's hut and another such group had set up camp en masse at Ryder's huts.
     
  7. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Serious!! Standing room only at Michell hut in August and as for BHP not being as big a draw. Currently about 15000 people each year visit Wallaces hut. This is based on counters placed on the track a couple of years ago. Plans for BHP is to make it every bit as big as the Grampians. I just read the Coroner's report about the Chinese national who died doing the OLT in 2014 and that is exactly what will happen on BHP. Soon there will be no place quiet or secluded on the mountain.
    We were brainstorming some ideas a while back and came up with one that could improve safety and is close to being within the realms of possible. A snow pole which is like an emergency phone. Solar powered with a transmitter and placed at several locations on the regular pole routes. You would have to knock the ice off it sometimes but a push button to talk and then a speaker to receive. I am sure there will be plenty of naysayers but it could be possible in years to come.
     
  8. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    On other matters more relevant to access to BHP. Kelly's track and the Lanes is now listed (in the Greater ANP Management plan) as an Management vehicle only track. The gate about 400m up from Fitzgerald Road is now locked.
     
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  9. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    Last winter at Michell hut it was n't THAT busy.I hope the BHP don't become a tourist circus. I know Wallaces hut gets a lot of visitors who never venture past it , down to the aquaduct because that would mean having to walk FURTHER :-0.
     
  10. CaptainC

    CaptainC Active Member

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    Talking to a ranger they have some seriously unprepared people heading out along the Razorback to Mt Feathertop. People wearing shorts and thongs and a tiny little day pack with no water. Chinese tourists were mentioned.
     
  11. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    This is very true and I have seen seriously under-prepared people in winter at Fed Hut. It is a bit of dilemma when some tracks are made too popular or too easy. I am not wanting to criticise Steve's work but one offset of track clearing is enticing those with less than adequate experience and equipment into areas beyond their ability. Personally I do not mind the odd tree to climb over or a bit of a scrub bash. The internet is probably more to blame with all the information posted on websites and forums a google search away. And in saying that, the fault lays directly with us for posting the information. I would hope we provide enough accurate information to educate but I still come across people who think they can when clearly their only experience is reading someone else's.
     
  12. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    Yes , I too saw an SES rescue on the Bungalow spur last winter. The man was HYPO EFFING THERMIC and he had no weatherproof gear at all . The weather was very bad but our party were safe because we were well prepared. Ub.Steve slipped over that weekend up there and wrecked his leg :-0
     
  13. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Oh that weekend ....when I screwed my left leg .....and had to hobble down at 1km per hour....with the gear I had carried up....very pleasing that rodeo fired up and I was out of their in a warm vehicle....nothing like a self rescue.....but Ubi has recovered.....and Team Bears will get back up there sooner or later ....where i fell was not steep difficult or anything special....bloody slippery bark lying along centre of track...
     
  14. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Well many learn from such a distastefull experience and bounce back for another trip better prepared and equipped...fortunately a trip to Federation Hut is popular and the track is definate.And these set backs produce better bushwalkers....even though I am not happy when SES has to come to assist folk in trouble....most bushwalkers have had all sorts of accidents and misadventures...when folk go beyond Fed Hut on to Razorback and conk out then it gets serious....I don't believe this forum has any affect on nos using these walking tracks....good luck to those that give it a go...we must learn to help them and assist them....not to belittle their efforts.Crawling under and over logs sucks up energy for all venturing up these tracks in the snow.....if anything Track clearing makes it less likely that newbies tire and get hypothermic....taking off packs and crawling under and over logs is energy zapping.So I beg to differ with the view expressed by Xplora.....

    I hear the arguement that some are under prepared......but if you took out Federation Hut then most of us can clearly see there would be more call outs for Vic Police and SES.
    It is a nonsense that Federation Hut draws under prepared folk up there...we all started our bushwalking careers with some dodgy first trips....give the newbies a go.....they have as much right to be up there as everybody else.
     
    #314 Ubiquitous Steve, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  15. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    We all know that wintery weather in the Oz Alps can kill you. However many people don't know this and head out into shite weather in snow and ice with no idea at all about the dangers involved. That August 2016 weekend when Ub. Steve hurt himself, the SES told us that they had a number of call outs esp. on the Razorback and Mt. Bogong . People were either lost in a whiteout or hypo effing thermic. :-0
     
  16. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Some learn the hard way and that is it. This tack on the thread started with my comment about the coroner's report into the death of a Chinese national on the OLT. How on earth did they ever dream they had enough gear or experience to do this walk? Tim Holding MP ventured further and got into serious trouble. He was fortunate.

    I would hope this is not a suggestion I have belittled the efforts of newbies. I have brought many people into wilderness walking over the years and encourage newbies with advice along with warnings. Of course the internet and forums, be it this one or any other, has an affect on the number of people we see on tracks. It used to be clubs that brought people in but so many more find the information posted and give it a go without the gentle guiding arm of an experienced leader. I am not discouraging them, just pointing out that a number of people who have little concept of the danger will then put other people at risk with either a recovery or rescue. Fine when it all turns out OK in the end. Even those with little experience but a great amount of commons sense can make good decisions when faced with a dilemma. Clearly the 3 Chinese nationals had no experience or common sense and that is what will be encouraged with the Iconic Falls to Hotham.
    We all have one, opinion of course, and you are entitled to yours. Happy to differ on this point and it is not a personal attack. Just a difference of view. Obstacles on a track may deter those who have inadequate experience and they can come back when better seasoned. For me it is all part of the experience and I would consider a newbie on a track such as Long Spur is wanting the bush experience and not the paved walkway. I did say pick up sticks is not a lot of fun but the odd tree to get over does not zap too much energy and it is often a good place have a break. I also made a comment some time back about the Long Spur and if you needed markers on it then you should not be there. I know you did not like that one but it has to be the easiest of spurs to follow and a person who has to rely on a marker to find their way on that spur is clearly out of their depth, yet there have been recent rescues on the Long Spur. With the expectation of markers the is less reliance on map and compass (or GPS but the former is more important as they do not require batteries). These are the skills needed when things go bad or weather closes in. Having a go is fine as long as it ends well and yes we are better for it. Encouraging people to go beyond their ability is contributory negligence.

    Certainly Fed hut is positioned appropriately but the number of people who are relying on huts for shelter is growing. Why? I would not say it is Fed hut drawing under-prepared people alone but people see the walk either by Razorback or Bungalow as easy and the lure of a hut at the end gives security. Inadequate sleeping bags and no tent. They then burn all the wood to keep warm. This I have seen. I have less interest going there now because of the hoards of people who, with no regard to any etiquette, abuse the generosity of those who came before to provide refuge, warmth and safety. Burn all the wood and never bother collecting more. Leave your rubbish behind for others to remove. Spread your gear everywhere so nobody else can get in. We do not need to encourage this kind of person.
     
  17. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    Fed. hut in winter is becoming a traffic jam. We will see what happens this August but I may favour the NW spur and MUMC hut in future white seasons.
     
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  18. hongomania

    hongomania Dedicated Member

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    I arrived at fed hut well after dark last season with a couple of friends (it was their first time snow camping and they wanted the safety of a hut)

    My issue was the probably 25 school kids in there. I had to squeeze in to dry all my gear etc.

    Look im all for sharing the backcountry, but a big part of me feels if you are there on a group school expedition, then give the kids the full experience and have them spend their night outside amongst the snowgums.
     
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  19. Time

    Time Active Member

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    When did it change from everyone being expected to bring somewhere to sleep and eat to a assumed right to access the huts for this?

    Atleast the remote huts in Koz are not often visited by large numbers. And even more so i seek out more and more remote areas to get away from other humans...Vic does seem worse affected than Koz.
     
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  20. hongomania

    hongomania Dedicated Member

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    Well I think alot has to do with the cheap outdoor gear you can get now, mix that with youtube footage and people want their "wilderness" experience, but arent prepared to sleep in a tent.

    Huts are great for day use or if youre lucky to be at one when no one else is there and call it home. Good for sitting around meeting new people as well. But there comes a point where its toooo busy and id rather go hug a tree

    Better not hijack this thread anymore.
     
  21. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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  22. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    If anyone goes out into the Oz Alps in winter expecting to find a hut ,without a 4 seasons tent in their pack etc. then they are taking their chances.
     
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  23. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    I read with interest others view points...

    Team Bears have another update....we went out to Weston's this arvo...stayed awhile and cut and split some wood.Cleaned little track to,the creek(little pond)
    Left some firefighters,candles,dunny rolls and matches...
    There is a little hatchet from last year and a bow saw and a spare 30inch blade for it.The wood stove has issues with its door has to be lifted when opening and closing.
    Summary ....plenty of wood(dry) inside Hut and Saw and hatchet..Hut is in good condition.we stayed awhile and rested then came out with torch

    .Wind was increasing as we came out..approx 11pm in Falls Ck.very misty...a prick of a drive over Ruined Castle because cloud so low ....We wanted to get out before weather changes...

    Also fixed two weather boards at Pretty Valley.....a real buzz coming out at night..following snow pole line towards Tawong Huts to intersect Jeep Track...wind very severe heading down there as we faced the west.
    No rain from when we arrived 2pm.till 10.30pm... but we think blizzard may be coming soon.
     
  24. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Track down to Weston's is pretty clear...a couple of things to step over...which we left as we were focused on Weston's Wood Supply as a priority.Snow pole line pretty good to Weston's from pole intersection near Mt Jim and down towards Tawonga Huts.
     
  25. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Oh just another observation....the wood stove nectre at Weston's works a treat....I boiled the kettle full water on its top in no time at all when stove was going flat out..so it's a very effective heat source and also very useful for cooking in addition to little camp stoves....so it's a far cry from the poor nectre at Cope Hut which is crammed into the stone chimney and has no room for placing pots on its top.As stated above its door(glass replaced with metal)has issues...probably a damaged top hinge but it can be opened and closed by lifting the door first.....with. metal pot belly tool.
     
  26. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Bogong HP road closed at the dam wall and will be closed at Trapyard gap with the hour. Likely to stay that way for a few days at least.
     
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  27. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    We factored that into our rushed trip to Weston's...well mission for 2017 got done and weatherboards at Pretty Valley got attended too....we saw a van near P.V Hut and another car was still near pondage when we left about ten pm.Saturday night.

    No doubt Parks have got down to check trips book at pondage and to count cars.
    Team Bears in their jeans stood at the Mt Jim pole intersection at about 9 pm Saturday((well we did have our overpants too just as back up) and we were not hanging around to watch the blizzard No short cuts on the way out....Pole lines and Jeep Track......not a night to get lost we felt.

    So we will direct attention now to other areas we can get at before road reopens....

    We had hoped to check on Cope Saddle Hut and Ryder's Hut but it ain't ganna happen still roads clear....

    Youngs Hut is usually well looked after so we need not worry heading out there..

    So we are looking at weather maps to see if this is a One front wonder or if things will consolidate with another dump...
     
  28. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    It is likely to open again later in the week. Waiting on the next front due today and then sunny days but low temps. The ground is still warm so the road should melt quick enough. At least that is my hope. Need another bulk top up of Alpine diesel from Mt. Beauty. The closing and opening of this road is tricky as it currently involves 4 land managers. It is pretty clear by the state of the road on the Alpine shire side that they have no interest in maintaining it to any safe standard without snow on it. It was certainly safe enough for a 4wd on Sunday afternoon but it became dangerous for 2wd. Fresh snow is great to drive on but once compacted and frozen overnight it is deadly. The Omeo Hwy is clear and about a foot deep in places on Mt. Wills. Bogong has a nice cover but too clouded in for a good pic yesterday. I am picking something will be done in the near future about BHP road as the floating seal cannot continue to stand up to many more winters. The Alpine shire will only put a bandaid on it and then put up speed restrictions or warning signs. East Gippsland are complaining about the corrugations coming through which means a rip up as well. Neither want to spend the money on it. If VicRoads takes it back then it may get some decent treatment and could even be kept open all year. This would involve a rip up and proper seal like that done on the Omeo Hwy. I am guessing that would upset a few skaters but it would mean many more people could take advantage of the resort from the east.
     
  29. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Oh good to know....Team Bears may still get a preseason sorte to Roper's Hut yet...
    It's a bit poor that the road was not prepared properly initially....

    It's also about time Parks threw some gravel and rock down on the track to Macnamarras off BHP Rd..
    thus enabling two wheel drive sedans to access the car park at the barrier.
     
  30. it123

    it123 Active Member
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    Was out at Fitzgerald's on Saturday/Sunday and expected to walk out in snow, and wasn't disappointed. Sorry Moondog, I took out a bow saw and spare blade, as there was nothing there.

    Sign posting out there is very minimal A group out for a day walk doing the loop, went over the hill to check out Kelly hut and hadn't seen the sign (or snow poles) heading back to the fire trail, and kept going along the track below Kelly. They walked for over an hour before they realised they had gone the wrong way. By the time they made it back to Fitzgerald's it was nearly 4 and getting cold, but they had friends waiting at the gate so I took them back up the hill, showed them the snow poles and track and off they headed.
     
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  31. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Oh good work....it123......we just leave Fitzs
    and Kelly's to other folk to sort out....but Fitzgeralds is a nice Hut from memory ....a sheltered route in up Lanes from Shannonvale....we got out before the snow came....

    Explora may wonder how they got lost....but for new folk it's understandable.....;);)
     
  32. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    I don't wonder how, it is very obvious. No map, compass, experience, sense of direction or common sense. Walking an hour down 107 would put them at Wildhorse creek and 10 minutes down would be enough for most to realise the track was not going the right way. I know these things happen and fortunately all ended well. I am sure they will happen more frequently as the area becomes popular with people who are better suited to navigating their way through a shopping complex. I was at Fitz's one summer when a couple on bikes approached from the east. They said that was the third time they ended up at Fitz's hut and were trying to get back to Watchbed creek. Trouble is they kept turning left at Marrum point and then left again at the aqueduct. Groundhog day! Surely after the second time round you would think not to do the same again. I would not go as far as describing this sort of person as 'new folk'. They are tourists and tourists need signs once out of sight of their car. Since it is now a tourist area then perhaps some better signs should be erected. I will send an email to the boss at PV Mt. Beauty to advise him of this incident and see if he can sort some signs out for the tourists. That should reduce the risk by 90, sorry 50%.
    (hope this was the response you were after)

    Kellys track or the Lanes from Shannonvale is a moderate climb of about 10km to Fitz's huts. Certainly easier, shorter access to Fitz's from Watchbed creek. As mentioned earlier, vehicle access is no longer available.
     
  33. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Oh Team Bears are excellent at getting lost at Chadstone...first we can not remember which carpark rodeo is in....then the multilevel layout throws us and we wander around in circles....getting to Apple to pick up this IPad was a big exercise for Bears.....maybe Parks could bang a few signs in for us so we can survive our shopping trips to Chaddy?
     
  34. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Info sent to PV Mt. Beauty this morning. They were aware of an incident on 107 on Sunday so may be the same. Signs agreed to. How easy was that? Thanks it123
     
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  35. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Maybe u could get them to refit door on Langford.s Gap Hut also!
     
  36. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    I thought the demarcation on that matter had been clearly explained. No matter, I could provide you with the number for the Mt. Beauty PV office and you can plead your case directly. Given my early initial hope BHP road would open again before the season starts I would now say the chance is quite low so it will not be fixed before winter. VicRoads is not showing closed at the Falls Creek end but East Gippsland have their gate shut and being Friday I doubt anything will be done when another weather system due on Tuesday would likely close it again. It has happened before that Falls Creek leave their gate open but want the Trapyard gate closed to prevent non paying intruders accessing the resort from the east but that usually happens after the season starts and there is no snow.
     
  37. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    So we take it that Parks Vic have been unaware of the Langford Gap problem for all this time and have not passed on info to the relevant Hut caretaker...so no Parks Management vehicles have been out there for three months??.

    Not sure I am across the logic of the BHP Rd gates locked perhaps at one end but not the other......but we take it that the road is closed to traffic and phone calls would be required to confirm this before setting out with anticipation of going further than the dam wall from Falls Ck or past Trapyard Gap from the Shannonvale Side....

    Perhaps one Vic Rds truck with blade could drive over Highplains to Trapyard Gap and spin around and drive back....problem resolved in say 1 hour and say half an hour for morning tea!!!
     
  38. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    This appears to be an assumption not based on fact. How do you know such information was not passed on. Since you also had the information, why did you not pass it on? Now you know the appropriate authority, have you passed it on? All very well to piss and moan but being a part of the solution is better than just complaining about the system.

    I am unsure if the gates are in fact locked but the VicRoads website shows the road closed at Trapyard gap and not Rocky Dam (which is usual for a seasonal or any snow closure). I was told it was being closed at Rocky but that has not been reflected on the official website so a call would be advisable. I know in the past on the Queens birthday weekend Falls Creek RMB have demanded the road closed at Trapyard but as there was no snow they left the gate open at Rocky so people could enjoy the walks, huts etc. and they did not want those not paying coming in from the east.

    A number of problems with this. The first is the road is not currently managed by VicRoads. It is a shire road managed in part by East Gippsland and Alpine. You need then to get both shires to bring separate machinery up to do the job and both have to consider that to be worthwhile (cost effective) when it is likely to be closed again in a couple of days. Secondly the road is not in a condition to sustain any sort of regular snow clearing to the point which would make it safe for 2wd vehicles to drive on it. Falls Creek will run a blade over (on the front of a Landcruiser) at the end of the season it but it cannot get close enough to the road as the road surface starts to lift. Lastly, snow plough operations are not as quick as you would hope.

    I did not make the system but understanding how it works enables you to work better within it with the goal of getting things done for the betterment of all.
     
  39. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    So let's see how long it takes for a fix on this door....
    I ain't gann help out here.....obviously Parks have known of this damage for some time....and it's an important refuge Hut in bad conditions.
    So they should be chasing this...not me or any body else...I have done enough work out there in previous years and I fully understand how important that Hut can be in blizzards....

    I am going to see how long it takes before the job gets done.
    Replacing this door should be a priority.....so let's sit back and watch to see the time it takes for such a simple task to be done.
     
  40. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    The gate at Trapyard Gap is if my memory serves me correctly controlled by Vic Roads.
    Falls Creek Management should play no part in whether it's open or not.

    It is desirable to let day trippers drive out around Rocky Valley and perhaps they can get out to Wallaces for a walk too.


    Hey pissing and moaning is the response I have when the Land Manager does not shoulder its responsibilities......

    It is Parks Responsibility to maintain refuge Huts in a sound condition....
    they may well have a caretaker to undertake these works....it is their responsibility to make sure works get done in a timely fashion.
    Seems to be lots of cash for Iconic Walks brochures but not a few dollars for some timber and some hinges .....

    So I have decided not to chase any organisation to spur these works on....I will wait to see how long it takes to replace a simple door and perhaps its door jamb.

    And obviously you Pass this area frequently and no doubt could have performed the job yourself.

    Good luck on this one boys!

    Oh I love that one about being part of the solution!
    So let's just see the response time on your so called System....

    Folk will no doubt huddle in Langford Gap Hut escaping a blizzard over the ensuing snow season...will no doubt shove the door up against the opening and may be successful in keeping the snow out.....I wonder what they will think of the system of which you hold in such high regard...
    Will they moan will they be pissed off.....will they wonder what system operates ....a hut like five mins drive from Falls Creek where a management vehicle can be parked out the front!!
     
    #340 Ubiquitous Steve, Jun 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  41. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Well we see already that the door was reported on Ski Forum by Cpt C on Jan 8th.... so we are coming up to six months with that door damaged ...and we are lead to expect the Parks Vic don't know that to be the case.......

    bloody good system we have you gotta admit................:cry:
     
  42. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Incorrect. It is controlled by East Gippsland Council. It is a shire road and VicRoads has no responsibility for it. I think I have said that before.
    And yet for some reason they do.

    Not when those on the eastern side are denied access to a free National Park or through traffic on a public road by an Alpine resort.

    It is not my system. You choose to work alone, outside the system and you decide how your time and efforts are spent. I choose to work within the system that is currently in operation and have affected change doing that. Sure it may take some time but I have taken time to build relationships and contacts within the various government agencies.

    They won't die and I am sure they would be grateful there are 4 walls and a roof. Perhaps it would inspire one of them to get involved in fixing the hut. It is not a hut I frequent. And please do not think for one minute I hold the system in high regard. You can blow off lots of steam with a rant and get nothing done or you can do what I do and work with it. Sure it feels like you are hitting your head against a wall sometimes but then I am quite pleased when things actually get done.
     
  43. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Please... such compliments....when after all Team Bears sit around and do f.all most of the time..

    Well I stand corrected on responsibility for Trapyard Gap Barrier...so it's your council that is dening you vehicle access to the High Plains ....an I do see that as a major failure of the system...
    And your complaints to the shire have fallen on deaf ears so to speak.

    Well I assume you live down near Shannonvale...for all Team Bears know you may get to speak to the Fitzgeralds...

    But I do remember you told the forum some time ago that the seasons closure on the BHP road caused you no grief at all...that's right when we talked of skidoos.....you were quite sure that nobody suffered due to the road closure....now we see a some what different view point emerging!!

    Team Bears likes consistency you gotta understand...so they are somewhat bewildered Xplora.
     
  44. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Perhaps they will be inspired to make a formal compliant to Parks Vic....
    She will be right ...we do like that inspirational statement...well who really needs a door on a refuge huge...suppose it could be a talking point on one of those other forums....

    Good luck on the System....oh that's the system that's committed itself to the FHAW draft plan.
     
  45. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Team Bears rolling Nth ...for another picnic table placement .....not telling where it's going...we will leave that other clown forum to speculate!!:thumbs:
     
  46. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Since the council workers who close the road do not work weekends or public holidays then it is closed by some other body with a vested interest on the June long weekend. Now to be clear, we are talking here about times when there is NO snow on the opening weekend. Some people drove to the Blue Duck on the Saturday only to find the gate locked on their return and they had to go back via Hotham. The gate at Rocky Dam was left open. The council closes the road at any time when it is reported snow is a hazard to driving. This report often comes from staff at Falls Creek. Once the road is closed the council usually relies on reports from the other end. Snow may clear at the gate but will still be thick in many places kilometers past. It is of course much closer for Falls Creek to look. As I mentioned before, there are 4 land managers so it is a difficult task co-ordinating them all. If the road is taken back by VicRoads things would be much simpler but for now it seems control of this gate lies more with Falls Creek resort than any other body.

    You assume many things in an attempt to score a point. There are a great number of people 'east' who are denied access when this road is unnecessarily closed but you assume I was only talking of myself or the immediate residents. Please do not misquote me for your own end.

    This is what I said when discussing snowmobiles.

    'Useful yes. Necessary No. There are in total 3 residents of the Glen (wider Shannonvale) area who do any backcountry after the gate is closed apart from Mittagundi and they ski in from the gate with the kids. The other 3 know how to get onto BHP or Bogong massive easy enough and there is no need to go to the resort during winter. Although Mittagundi could not afford any snow vehicle it could be handy for them to transport an injured person but then that is what the authorities are for. They have managed for many years without so again I would say not necessary.'

    Not once did I say anything you have falsely suggested. That was in response to your suggestion snowmobiles 'may be rather good value for residents of Shannonvale if necessary.' We were discussing on that thread winter access with snowmobiles when the road is blocked by snow. Of course I would support all year round 2wd vehicle access as it would benefit many people east of the gate as well as people west who want to drive past Falls Creek just as they do at Hotham. I see nothing inconsistent with what I have previously said, just the way you have reported it. I do have one caveat to this view as I believe winter motor vehicle access would require significant upgrades to roads and communication to make it safer for all motorists.

    Making and placing tables is your thing. It must be quite cathartic for you. I doubt anybody would find them necessary on the Long Spur, skiers or walkers, but it is your time, effort and money. Other places you have put them are useful to visitors such as the deer hunters using Mulhauser camp.

    We live in a litigious society, one which I did not create but one we all have to live with. Working independent of the system could see someone fall foul to one of the many people who see their own misadventure an opportunity for financial gain. To conduct work on the huts within the National Park you should be covered by the appropriate public liability insurance or authority of the land manager. The VHA has both. I am not saying you should not do the work. Your choice entirely but I chose a different path. I have experience with risk management and do not feel like losing all I have. That risk may be small but I choose not to take it. Have fun on your next table run. Please keep it a secret.
     
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  47. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Well picnic table no.ten in the Mitta Mitta Complex has been delivered...and Team Bears will even supply a photo .....guess the location...well out of the way of campers,vehicles and caravans we might add.Perhaps Explora can identify the location?
    Nice sunny morning in Mitta ..water bucket had frozen film on top this morning though....cheers
    Main forest rd from Mitta Mitta to Mt Ck and Tawonga is in excellent condition ...no trees across road at all.surface good just a little slippery ,some patches of frost/ice.
     
    #347 Ubiquitous Steve, Jun 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  48. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Yeh it's a secret alright after the crap I have been reading over on the dog for breakfast Forum....see if the lads can go into a talk fest over this one...nothing personal of course!
     
  49. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Well pardon me it ain't just deer hunters using these tables ...trust me .....it's bushwalkers too....but it suits you not to concede this!
    Good luck with you radical plots and plans though....

    And we see from your post that you want the BHP Rd open all year.......that seems a contradiction in your ideology really.......so the odd snow mobile troubles you but not vehicles driving over there at any time......let's play spot the car headlights from Cope Hut on our backcountry adventures!
     
  50. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    The more you misquote or attempt to misconstrue my words the more desperate you appear. A great amount of straw clutching going on in order for you to put yourself back in the position you are comfortable with. I have conceded many of your tables are in great locations but feel tables on remote walking tracks are just out of place. Much the same to me as what some within PV are trying to do with the FHAC. I am not alone on that one. It spoils the area but you do not feel this way. I can accept that but I can also disagree. I have conceded the valuable work you have done clearing some tracks but do not see the need to pick up every stick on the ground. You do not like it when people disagree with you. I can understand that as well but the way you then carry on is really a bit childish. 'Dog for breakfast forum'. Really is that necessary? But this is quite typical of the sort of behaviour and language you use when moderated or when someone disagrees with you. My feelings are the next building project you undertake should be a bridge and then get over it.

    As for headlights of cars on BHP, I guess the lack of snow groomers at night with their noise and headlights would offset that. Camping within 200m of the BHP road (unless at an official camp area) is prohibited. My thoughts are it would be not too much different from summer camping and the odd car travelling over. BHP is a public road used for the carriage of motor vehicles and if were able to be maintained all year round then a considerable benefit for many would ensue, including those on backcountry adventures. They would, for starters,not have to pay for parking at the resort. Snowmobiles do not need a public road and there would be more opportunity for them to annoy well off track. Are you disagreeing with me on this matter or simply trying to score some points? Again I see nothing contradictory with my ideology. Nuff said.