Balanced ABC Reporting (or not)

Discussion in 'Perisher' started by skinavy, Jan 8, 2017.

  1.  
    skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

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  2.  
    crackson

    crackson Dedicated Member

    Links don't work.
     
  3.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

  4.  
    kiter

    kiter Active Member

    I wondered what title this issue would get.
     
  5.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    It would be many decades since the ABC could have been accused of 'balanced reporting'.
     
    :thumbs: Annabuzzy likes this.
  6.  
    skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

    I don't know about that, in some stuff they are pretty good (certainly better than most of the senior Fairfax reporters and a long way in front of anyone at News Corp) These articles smack of a couple of work experience journalists fresh out of uni.
     
  7.  
    teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    The pic of one of them would suggest a work experience person. The other is, I think, a little too old to be able to use that as an excuse.
     
  8.  
    skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

    Interesting that one article uses the phrase "park operators" with regard to the moving of the bog, while the other says NPWS. While park operators would be correct to mean NPWS by using that phrase it implies Perisher did it without approval.
     
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  9.  
    climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Season Pass Gold

    The sewerage system is run by NPWS at Perisher. Which would be why Vail Resorts declined to comment on it.

    All the relocations of works were done for Perisher. Wording reads straight from the Colong press release, with comment from NPWS.

    If Planning say works have started they've pretty much started. Legal definition if 'started' is a pretty minor set of works. A few survey pegs might cover it. Colong is fishing for coverage of the issue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
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  10.  
    DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Love this gem from the ABC:

    "But it's now, in the off-season, it's also possible to get a glimpse of the stark asphalt of Perisher's carpark."

    Because in winter it's covered in snow perhaps ? LOL
     
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  11.  
    Jellybeans1000

    Jellybeans1000 Dedicated Member

    Australia vs America, not really a new concept.
     
  12.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    bullshit
     
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  13.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Indeed, the NPWS run sewerage works has a long history of not meeting operating guidelines. It has however subject to continual improvements and upgrades.

    IMHO, in regards to environmental outcomes, building the village would be an improved outcome over the current open air car park and any new car park would subsequently be built to stricter environmental guidelines.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
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  14.  
    skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

    Which sewerage works in KNP are run by NPWS and which by the resort? I'm pretty sure Thredbo run theirs. Is CP run by the resort or NPWS? Been some major issues with that one in the past, including a completly wiping out of the biological filter by someone which resulted in the resort being closed.
     
  15.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Thredbo is Thredbo, PB is NPWS, not sure about Charlottes.
     
  16.  
    Mr. Mook

    Mr. Mook Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    while nowhere near as bad as privately owned media , there have been times when stories are slanted or have "left out" information that completely altered the context.
    For example, a 7.30 story on the death of 16yo aboriginal in Darwin included the statement that his grandfather had not looked at a picture of the boy since his death. The timing of the statement in the story-line inferred this was a result of his grief at the way he had been treated by the authorities and the way they treated his grandsons death. No mention of that fact that the majority of indigenous people refuse to look at images of dead people because of their cultural beliefs. That story aired more than 10 years ago

    The comment on the visibility of the carpark in summer versus winter is just another example. Hard to trust a reporter who can't even do basic research to find the carpark is pretty much visible all year round.
     
  17.  
    POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    This article was off to a bad start IMO.
    This year? You mean last year? Actually it secured Perisher in 2015!

    Who the heck are the Colong Wilderness? They sound like your average 'greenie' whistle blowers... Their website shows their campaigns are virtually baseless:
    https://www.colongwilderness.org.au...k/whats-happening-to-kosciuszko-national-park
     
  18.  
    POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    Perhaps the concept is being re-visited after the torrent of water that was evident in July last season?


    [​IMG]
     
  19.  
    climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Season Pass Gold

    To be fair, they are a well established and reasonably organised conservation group.
     
  20.  
    skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

    A quick look at the website shows how ridiculous their claims are:

    The resorts aren't doing cloud seeding; Snowy Hydro is.

    The NSW Government isn't building apartments in Perisher and it is hardly a land grab given the development is happening in the carpark and within the lease area.

    Stopping DH MTB because of the risk to walkers....
     
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  21.  
    Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 Active Member

    I am tiring of ABC reporting as a generalisation. I started reading this article thinking "here we go again" but at least they did put forward alternative points of view toward the end of the article. Journalists are supposed to abide by a code of ethics, but other than a slap on the wrist from the ACMA, they can write whatever they like. The problem is that many Australians still believe the 'legitimate' media and so their biased reporting can unfairly skew public opinion, sometimes leading to inappropriate legislation based on this dodgy data. We have one newspaper here in our regional area, so when they intentionally skew reporting to satisfy personal whims of an editor, there is very little one can do. It cost my family hundreds of thousands of dollars
    I have just seen the coverage from ABC TV about Perisher/Vail and it too "implied" validity of the people challenging the concept approval which has been in place for many years.
    I believe "codes of ethics" should become law.
     
  22.  
    POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    That maybe the case, but their website doesn't reflect this IMO.
     
  23.  
    Jellybeans1000

    Jellybeans1000 Dedicated Member

    Useless campaigns like this
    [​IMG]
     
  24.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold


    "the flood" happens on a semi regular basis, all part of the design scope
     
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  25.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    The only inaccuracy is the cloud seeding reference but .... if you read the associated cloud seeding page on the website it clears up any misconceptions.

    The NSW government is not physically building apartments but they are a key driver of apartment development via the state zoning and approvals process.

    The park is indeed under great pressure from many different groups
     
  26.  
    skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture Moderator Season Pass Gold

    Perisher used to contribute to the cloud seed costs.

    There used to be posters to this effect about the place a few years ago.
     
  27.  
    skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

    Agree that the park is under pressure, however the site on the Perisher Land Grab (once again not a land grab as it is already part of the lease area) says:

    In 2016, the NSW Goverment is seeking to build apartment blocks in Kosciuszko National Park. There are many processes going on which will allow this development. The current process is a "management review".

    This clearly implies that it is NSW doing the devolpment not Perisher. The same page also talks about golf courses yet the Perisher development makes no mention of a golf course
     
  28.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    Whilst there is ambiguity in understanding, the statement is true.

    Governments "seek" interest from developers to develop and in this case the location is within a National Park. Golf courses could become part of a future development application. The cleared areas already exist and "landscaping" based on various applications and approvals is a well established process.

    The Kosi Park and its established leisure developments have been in an ongoing expansion process for many, many years. IMHO, developing PB within its current boundaries could actually improve the "environmental outcomes" as the current carpark is fairly utilitarian and subject to fairly unconstrained runoff.

    The million dollar question is as always, balancing conflicting needs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
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  29.  
    POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    Wholeheartedly agree with you here!
     
  30.  
    Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    The story on the ABC TV news tonight was unbalanced. In a couple of senses of the word.
     
  31.  
    crackson

    crackson Dedicated Member

  32.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

  33.  
    Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    I just love how weak as p%^€ Mountain Watch is on their FB feed. Too scared to say what they mean for fear of offending god knows who. Who speaks for us if everyone is too scared to contradict the extreme greenies?

    And of course ABC would run the greenie slant. F@%# the ABC.
     
  34.  
    Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    :thumbs: dawooduck likes this.
  35.  
    dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room Season Pass Gold

    "extreme greenies" FFS get a grip man. Lets not go all unbalanced whilst whistling the balanced tune.

    Stralya
     
  36.  
    gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Old And Crusty Season Pass Gold

    entitled yes. valid? not necessarily
     
  37.  
    Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    Both the article and the report were a really clumsy attempt to "investigate" resort expansion at Perisher. I don't think that Colong or Hope got too much time, rather I was left wondering where Perisher was. The issue of the poo farm was poorly explained. I was also left wondering why removing bed restrictions was not examined further.

    Ski resorts have big impacts and overnight visitors have bigger impacts than day visitors. The question is what is the right balance between recreation and industry vs conservation, I'm not opposed to the Village development, but I'm not a fan of creating new car parking.
     
  38.  
    POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    Someone at ABC get their Epic Pass pulled in a Vail resort over the Chrissy break or something?
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-...hrink-australia-ski-season-csiro-says/8166372

     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
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  39.  
    PiniPowPow

    PiniPowPow Dedicated Member

    Very poorly written articles! so many errors and so clumsy as @Telemark Phat mentioned, just a few...

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-08/is-your-kosciuszko--holiday-damaging-the-environment/8141094

    "In 2014 National Parks and Wildlife staff dug up and moved 150 square metres of one such bog to make way for Perisher's $4 million Freedom Chairlift at Guthega."

    This was Perisher's project, NPWS helped in translocating the bog. This is actually a good news story.Why not ask NPWS if the relocation worked? if not, why not?

    "Sewage treatment plants rely on microbes to break down faeces, but those microbes need warm temperatures. The only problem is when the park is at capacity, it's also freezing cold."

    Yes, that is why the aeration tanks are inside a giant shed and warm water is added to the process. The pond pictured is just the catch pond prior to final UV treatment. Also, how do they suppose sewage is treated in colder climates?

    "The ABC has found Perisher Sewage Treatment Plant breached its Environment Protection Licence eight times during the most recent ski season and 13 times in 2015-16. This meant higher than acceptable levels of nitrogen, ammonia, phosphorous, and solids were detected at discharge monitoring points. In other words, contaminated water was being released into Perisher's alpine streams and ultimately the Snowy Mountain River system."

    You didn't find this, it is public knowledge. The licence conditions and monitoring results are on the OEH website. These are exceedances of licence conditions. They are not "in other words, contaminated water". And they generally happen during periods of high rainfall as happened in 2016. Also the "Snowy Mountain River" isn't a thing.

    "In the Statement of Environmental Effects for the proposal to build an 800-bed development, National Parks said the current plant could cope with the extra people, but they could also upgrade if needed. The licence breaches, suggest otherwise."

    Really? Why? Why not ask NPWS what population the plant is designed for? if it could easily be upgraded? How many people were in the village when the excedances occurred? What work is being done/has be done to prevent stormwater entering the sewerage network etc.

    "The only advantages of those major storms is the dilation that occurs, the amount of water moving through the system, the actual impact is very minimal."

    The word here is "dilution". This statement and following quote from EPA kind of dissolve the argument.

    "Each slope grooming requires removal of trees and granite tors so people can be safe. And this has been continuing for decades. The bigger the resort the more slope grooming, the more removal of habitat for endangered mountain pygmy possums, our burramys, the vegetation that they live on. While in the park we witness a number of these tors being excavated from Perisher and moved for a rock wall nearby."

    The MPP habitat is well known and slope grooming does not happen where it exists. Furthermore, NPWs and Perisher have done lots of work in protecting, connecting and rehabilitating habitat, another good news story, why not mention this? Tors are not habitat. When they are encountered during construction they are saved and used in rock walls to improve the visual amenity of buildings in the village.

    The final quote from NPWS is a good one "Kosciuszko is one of the best and we do want people to get out and I understand the environmental value, because they are not going to get that in the lounge room, they are going to get out in the park."

    The Objects of the NPW Act obviously include conservation but there is a part about "Fostering public appreciation, understanding and enjoyment of nature and cultural heritage and their conservation". Park managers, and lessees, tread a fine line between conservation and recreation.

    There is a story in how these conflicts are managed, the different players, environmental benefits and impacts, the role and direction of government etc. Just seems these two clowns went down for a roady and wrote some half arsed reports to justify their expenses.
     
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  40.  
    Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    PiniPowPow raises some good points. I have been going to Kossie winter and summer for getting too close to 50 years. The work that NPWS, Thredbo and Perisher have done to rehabilitate the ski areas far exceeds any new damage. Erosion control and re-vegetation are a couple of examples.
     
  41.  
    Kletterer

    Kletterer Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    During Winter its not uncommon for vehicles to be parked most of the way back down to Sponars. How many visitors parking require a brisk toilet stop ? Impact ? Visitors keep coming and the resort struggles to cope with numbers.
     
  42.  
    Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    Have you been to popular backcountry camping spots during the thaw? At least the stuff deposited within the resorts is treated.
     
  43.  
    Kletterer

    Kletterer Addicted Member Season Pass Gold

    Yep. It aint nice. Definately a need for the new car park
     
  44.  
    Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    Roadside deposits by the toilet fairy would be a pretty minimal impact compared to the disturbance created by the road. Roads alter hydrololgy, are a weed vector, and in the case of alpine and sub alpine areas have salt and particulate runoff which is a much greater impact.
     
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  45.  
    skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

    Hence redeveloping the current carpark to contain more of that and imposing greater restrictions on parking(less spaces, no parking by the road, etc.), which in turn forces more use of Skitube would actually be a good thing for the environment. The only problem is the high cost of skitube for the casual daytripper (i.e someone who doesn't get an epic/season pass).
     
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  46.  
    CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com Moderator Season Pass Gold

    My main comment on the whole Perisher / NPWS thing from an environmental perspective is just how many cars are permitted in the park and how woeful the public transport is, especially compared to resorts worldwide which generally have fantastic bus services.

    I would try to pretty much eradicate public car travel up to Perisher & increase affordable capacity on the skitube plus adding vastly greater bus services from Jindabyne.
     
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  47.  
    Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    Agreed, however the current plan includes new parking at pipers gap which I don't support.
     
  48.  
    Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture Season Pass Gold

    I'm a fan.
     
  49.  
    Belly

    Belly Addicted Member

    I've been learning a little about the stakeholder consultation playbook in my recent life. And while the article doesn't directly articulate whether an opinion was sought from Vail Resorts I think you can reasonably extrapolate that it might be an area of improvement for them to consider into the future.
     
  50.  
    hipo

    hipo Dedicated Member Season Pass Gold

    Have always thought that the "village" should be built at Bullocks Flat with ski tube access included in accommodaion costs. Don't know what the financials are for the Ski Tube but the patronage is steadily increasing with carriages packed during peak hours. If I remember correctly, it was sold to Perisher for a hugh writedown and didn't figure highly in the sale to Vail.

    Don't hink 800 people is going to do much for the night life in Perisher and won't do much either to make it a year round resort. - where's the target market that will sustain both Thredbo and Perisher
    Personally, I would rather see an improvemnet in the day facilities at both Perisher and Smiggens instead of the disgrace that currently exists.
    I think Vail is making more profit out of Epic pass holders spending money in the US without them building a village in Perisher. Maybe buy some of the commercial lodges would be a more sensible first step into "Vail accommodation" in Perisher.
    The whole episode seems to me like a desperate attempt by the Colong Foundation to try to spike ANY improvement in facilities within the Kosi NP. Hardly accuse the ABC of bias when they only provided cadets to cover the story. Heck I remember glowing reports via the ABC when the Freedom Chair was opened. .Some would even call that balanced reporting
     
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