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Jetstream Question

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#92024 - 10/02/07 06:37 pm Re: Jetstream Question
M-HD
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Nice stuff!!

I've just started some further study of this stuff (among other things)...

The interesting thing for me is the similarity with our own Zonal flows (Jets, trades etc) and a zonal flow set up on other planets and for that matter in things like terestrial plasmas and oceans....

AFAIK Jets are a seasonal certanty (for now..) you look at the ncar seasonal average winds at 250mb you see that year to year we get the strong jets due to the gradient (change) in heating... while the sun is directly over head (summer) heating is not a strong function of lattitude, but while it is in the north (winter) the angle of incidence on the ground and the local re-radation and hence heating is a strong function of how far south you are and winds move to cancel out this thermal gradient....

This is one of the reasons why avation forcasters are busier in the winter as there is much more vertical and horizontal shear resulting in clear air turbulence which needs to be forcasted...
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#246488 - 25/08/07 02:58 am Re: Jetstream Question [Re: TropicalBoy]
Ossie bloke
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Falls expat.

Your explanation suffers badly. Looking at geoligical evidence. Looking at mythologic evidence, there is no way that you are correct.

There were two giant ice sheets in the Northern hemisphere recently. Your heat exchange and gravity driven theory cannot explain this.

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#246498 - 25/08/07 04:09 am Re: Jetstream Question [Re: M-HD]
Ossie bloke
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M-HD

Qouting you... "local re-radation"
Radiation cannot re-radiate.

From this webpage;-

http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadGreenhouse.html

Does the atmosphere reradiate?
One often hears the claim that the atmosphere absorbs radiation emitted by the Earth (correct) and then reradiates it back to Earth (false). The atmosphere radiates because it has a finite temperature, not because it received radiation. When the atmosphere emits radiation, it is not the same radiation (which ceased to exist upon being absorbed) as it received. The radiation absorbed and that emitted do not even have the same spectrum and certainly are not made up of the same photons. The term reradiate is a nonsense term which should never be used to explain anything.

Sometimes diagrams are drawn which show the radiation from the Earth's surface rising into the sky and being reflected off of the atmosphere (or clouds, or greenhouse gases). This too is nonsense. The radiation was not reflected, it was absorbed and different radiation was subsequently emitted.

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#387958 - 30/03/08 08:23 pm Re: Jetstream Question [Re: BrentC]
shneeshwine
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What are the temp gradiants in the experiments.Can you tell us about outer materials utilsed and protocols on stats used.
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#428577 - 26/05/08 01:56 pm Re: Jetstream Question [Re: shneeshwine]
willis
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 PHP:
Question is how do jetstreams affect weather systems?


Found this in a description of 11 - 13 October 2000 NZ snowstorm. Click on the link below to see the whole thing, weather maps aswell. Here is an example of how they can have an effect

 Quote:
A depression gathered some warm moist clouds from Australia and brought them southwards across the North Island of New Zealand as a warm front. About the same time a chilly southerly marched out of the southern ocean. The moist clouds (aloft) and the chilly southerlies (near ground) met just east of Canterbury, providing the spark to make intense rain. This supplied energy to speed-up a passing jetstream, resulting in the direct removal of heaps of air out of the original depression. So its pressure dropped from 1002 to below 980hPa - most of this occurred in 24 hours, and at latitude 45șC a drop of 20hPa in 24 hours is defined as 1B (one bomb).


Any knowledge on that?

http://www.metservice.com/default/index.php?alias=2000spring2194257


Edited by willis (26/05/08 02:00 pm)

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#440269 - 11/06/08 11:21 am Re: Jetstream Question [Re: willis]
willis
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Anybody???
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#441772 - 13/06/08 01:28 am Re: Jetstream Question [Re: willis]
Shin setsu
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Sick low..... were is that when we need it....
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#443171 - 15/06/08 06:38 pm Re: Jetstream Question [Re: willis]
M-HD
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 Originally Posted By: willis
 PHP:
Question is how do jetstreams affect weather systems?


Found this in a description of 11 - 13 October 2000 NZ snowstorm. Click on the link below to see the whole thing, weather maps aswell. Here is an example of how they can have an effect

 Quote:
A depression gathered some warm moist clouds from Australia and brought them southwards across the North Island of New Zealand as a warm front. About the same time a chilly southerly marched out of the southern ocean. The moist clouds (aloft) and the chilly southerlies (near ground) met just east of Canterbury, providing the spark to make intense rain. This supplied energy to speed-up a passing jetstream, resulting in the direct removal of heaps of air out of the original depression. So its pressure dropped from 1002 to below 980hPa - most of this occurred in 24 hours, and at latitude 45șC a drop of 20hPa in 24 hours is defined as 1B (one bomb).


Any knowledge on that?

http://www.metservice.com/default/index.php?alias=2000spring2194257


Yes.. plenty of knowledge on that..

A Jetstream is a area of local maxima in winds above ~500hPa (although you do get jets below that, for example nocturnal jets just above the surface etc..)

This is in general caused by strong temperature gradients and two classical climatological examples exist: The subtropical jet just below the string of high pressure systems and the polar front jets above the low pressure systems.

Now there are three things required to produce snowfalls: Cold (enough) temperatures, instability, and moisture.

In the southern hemisphere the left entrance and right exit of a jet streak will enhance upward flow and instability and hence possible precipitation.

This can be explained through a variety of meteorological phenomena (confluence/diffulence, conservation of potentiality vorticity)

So, if I were to engineer a nice snowfall situation I would have nice cold air and strong thermal gradient generating a mid tropospheric polar front jet with the left entrance over the alps. Then turn that into a cut off system and a east coast flow of moist air and you have a dump...

(disclaimer: I may have got my left entrance etc... the wrong way around... all my reference material is at work...)
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#445094 - 17/06/08 03:22 pm Re: Jetstream Question [Re: M-HD]
willis
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Didn't understand much of that but thanks for responding. I'll have to suss it out myself I think
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#709403 - 23/06/09 10:08 pm Re: Jetstream Question [Re: willis]
SnowAndrew
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Is there a reason this topic is sticky and comes up at the top all the time?
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