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Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
#623752 - 20/03/09 07:23 am
Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
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HiLo
"I could be wrong though."
Silver skigie winner 2006
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VICTORIA'S top water officials are preparing for the controversial north-south pipeline to deliver much less water than promised, under new water supply forecasts for Melbourne.
Despite earlier claims the pipeline would deliver up to 75 billion litres of water to Melbourne each year, authorities privately believe it will struggle to supply half that amount in its second year of operation, 2011.
Derrrr
teckel will love this. 
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#623762 - 20/03/09 07:50 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: HiLo]
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TC
Old and Crusty ;)
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teckel was right to oppose it
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#623779 - 20/03/09 08:23 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: TC]
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PolePlant
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Save the Dams !
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#623799 - 20/03/09 08:59 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: PolePlant]
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sadcase
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The pipeline will not deliver the water they had hoped. The desalination plant is struggling to get funds for it to be built. The railways are in the worst mess for a long time perhaps ever. "Its all part of the plan".
If they could provide half as good as they could spin we might actually end up with something half decent.
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#623801 - 20/03/09 09:01 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: PolePlant]
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skimax
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yep all marketing spin , and really really duplicitous ( sheesh i wish i could spell)
Nothing like pumping hypothetical water between empty reserviors.
No news on the fact that even with the desal plant we wont have enough water by 2016 .
Bunch of emus with their heads stuck in the sand.
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#623816 - 20/03/09 09:25 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: skimax]
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HiLo
"I could be wrong though."
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Let's just talk about the pipeline (and maybe other water issues). Please don't play politics by bringing in other crap.
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#623817 - 20/03/09 09:26 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: skimax]
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PolePlant
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** MOD NOTE**
** What part of No Political Discussion are you having trouble understanding? **
Edited by Shrek (20/03/09 10:55 am)
Edit Reason: political
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#623827 - 20/03/09 09:34 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: skimax]
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teckel
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The alleged 'savings' were, as I said about 12 months ago, a 'pipedream' (sorry for the pun). They were the figment of someone's imagination - a figure that suited the government - but were not based on any proper analysis of the situation.
Meanwhile, Eildon (from where the water will be drawn) is at 14.8% capacity, while Melbourne's water supply is at 30.2% capacity. Something is not quite right in all this.
As is very clear from this photo, the fires burnt right through the area, but do you think any of the pipeline infrastructure got burnt? Of course not - other than one or 2 dongers, and as soon as they could, they were back on the construction sites, causing huge traffic delays (eg: 40 kph limits on the Melba Hwy) when the fire victims could hardly move around anyway. You might have thought that there could have been a break in activities out of respect for the local fire victims, who almost to a man, are totally opposed to the pipe. Nup 
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Plug the Pipe
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#623851 - 20/03/09 10:11 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: teckel]
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PG
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Vote 1 Kenneth Davidson.
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#623871 - 20/03/09 10:39 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: HiLo]
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skimax
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Hilo this is not playing politics , its purely stating publically available infomration from Melbourne waters own numbers sheesh.
Pollies on all sides for the last 15 years or so have done stuff all , just spin and hiding behind other causes as excuses for their inaction.
eg no more dams , eg save the environment was code in part for ' what is the cheapest capital option "
yet we put a water producing desal plant that runs off electricity.
Underspending depreciation meaning many many large budget items need fixing , the diverted money going into spin campaigns (eg the transport plan "yes we have one")
Being voracious campaigners for greenhouse gas spin , but cant even agree on plastic bags, and happy to import thousands of people who are the biggest creators of greenhouse gas , as they pay taxes now and we'll avoid giving services .
Bunch of nuff nuffs , when are we going to vote for them on what they do versus what they say .
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#623885 - 20/03/09 10:51 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: skimax]
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teckel
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Yup, both sides of politics have failed Victoria. The last visionary we had was Bolte - planned Melbourne's freeway system, airport, universities, dams (including the Thomson). Since him (over 35 years ago), other than implementing his vision, no state govt has done a thing. Yup, he was an ugly bastard, but we need another Bolte desperately. Don't care what side of politics he's on, but we need another one.
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Plug the Pipe
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#623907 - 20/03/09 11:07 am
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: teckel]
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markopolo
Old and Crusty ;)
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All states need governments with real NUTS. Real vision and growth comes from strength and all we have at state level these days are wimps.
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#623982 - 20/03/09 12:08 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: markopolo]
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HiLo
"I could be wrong though."
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Sorry skimax. My comment was primarily directed at sadcase who wanted to talk about the trains and govt spin.
I'd rather talk about how silly it was to build a pipeline to take water from an empty dam.
It may have looked better if the irrigation water saving projects had been completed and shown to be successful first.
_________________________
All sigs are a totally redundant, egotistical, distracting waste of electrons, especially this one.
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#624017 - 20/03/09 12:43 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: HiLo]
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teckel
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It may have looked better if the irrigation water saving projects had been completed and shown to be successful first.
You forget HiLo - it had to be delivered by 2010 - in time for the next state election.
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Plug the Pipe
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#624021 - 20/03/09 12:49 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: HiLo]
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sadcase
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Sorry if I digressed was not my intention. Whilst on the subject of pipelines how about one from Tassie to Vic. Apparently there is a pretty big mountain over there somewhere that produces a heap of fresh water only for it to flow out to sea, or am I getting side tracked again?
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#624039 - 20/03/09 01:03 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: sadcase]
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HiLo
"I could be wrong though."
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I'd like to see more discussion like that sadcase. These days technology can give us many solutions. I wonder what the feasinility of a Bass Strait pipeline is?
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#624048 - 20/03/09 01:14 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: HiLo]
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currawong
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IIRC, you don't have to move water far before it takes less energy to do desal. I can't remember the figure but it might have been lift 1 metre vertical = heat 1 degee C . I could be out by an order of magnitude (or more), but you get the idea.
I think the best straegies are
Identify and reduce wasted water
Short haul linkages between storages and catchments (2 way?)
Start putting in a parallel reticulation system for reclaimed water (recycled and stormwater)
Invest in some desal, even as pilot projects so that we gain experience if we need to do more in future
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#624053 - 20/03/09 01:15 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: HiLo]
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Fangin'Wolvy
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It would be more cost effective to concentrate on de-sal of water than re-directing water via pipe and stealing it from those who need it the most.
Why it is not done, is the biggest c0ck up this government has yet achieved.
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Ride it like you stole it or get steppin'
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#624058 - 20/03/09 01:20 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: Fangin'Wolvy]
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TC
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desal uses lots of energy and the brine may be a problam
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#624080 - 20/03/09 01:38 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: TC]
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sadcase
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Why cant we direct our storm water to go to the dams instead of out to sea?
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#624081 - 20/03/09 01:38 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: HiLo]
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markopolo
Old and Crusty ;)
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I'd like to see more discussion like that sadcase. These days technology can give us many solutions. I wonder what the feasinility of a Bass Strait pipeline is?
totally agree HiLo, we are a clever species, we should be innovating and not placating minorities ,for the greater good.
Edited by markopolo (20/03/09 01:39 pm)
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#624083 - 20/03/09 01:42 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: markopolo]
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scottski
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Can anyone tell me why we do not run a second pipeline with salt water to flush toilet etc. You can also have mini wind and solar desal plants on your roof converting to potable water for minimum cost. Same for reverse osmosis treatment of storm water.
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#624084 - 20/03/09 01:42 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: currawong]
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sadcase
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IIRC, you don't have to move water far before it takes less energy to do desal. I can't remember the figure but it might have been lift 1 metre vertical = heat 1 degee C . I could be out by an order of magnitude (or more), but you get the idea.
I think the best straegies are
Identify and reduce wasted water
Short haul linkages between storages and catchments (2 way?)
Start putting in a parallel reticulation system for reclaimed water (recycled and stormwater)
Invest in some desal, even as pilot projects so that we gain experience if we need to do more in future
In the case of the bass straight pipeline, I was talking about it with a mate the other day and he reckons at the height the water would fall from to get to the pipeline, that would create a huge amount of pressure negating the need for pumping.
Not that I am an expert in water pressure and how much that pressure dissipates over distance or anything but surely the height of the mountain would be of some benefit.
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#624137 - 20/03/09 02:45 pm
Re: Vic north south pipeline won't have enough water.
[Re: sadcase]
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PG
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Why cant we direct our storm water to go to the dams instead of out to sea?
Because in most cases, you'll be pumping large amounts of water uphill.
A better question is why don't we just store storm water that falls in our cities?
Because that would require a decentralised water infrastructure that would be difficult to tax and levy, making it less attractive to investment banks.
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