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Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
#733508 - 21/07/09 12:43 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Crystal]
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trappers
... Some say he is 'Q' ...
Old and Crusty ;)
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Before a little person came into my life, I think my wife and I would have been lucky to use more than 150l a day. With a little person the amount of washing, dish washing triples (at least) plus I dunno how much water a bath as opposed to a shower uses, but it takes at least 5min to fill to the right level!
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... and then one day I got bored ...
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#733591 - 21/07/09 01:52 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: trappers]
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Charlie
I admit to being one of the more depraved posters here
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If you use hot water in those appliances, then the financial) savings become more appreciable!
(Waits patiently for the outcry, "I always use cold water")
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#733603 - 21/07/09 01:59 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: trappers]
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Snow Blowey
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500L a day for 20mil people equates to a tank that is about 215m x 215m x 215m in size. Not very much water in the scheme of things so i'm guessing that number is the avergae domestic consumption.
If there is plenty of water available, saving it doesn't make any sense. The only time it makes sense is when we are considering doing silly buggers like building desalination plants to keep up with demand.
It really irks me when city ideology gets thrust upon regional areas because the clueless people who make the most noise on these types of issues seem to be heard by those in charge. I cite introduction of water restrictions in towns like Dubbo and Wagga Wagga as proof of this. There is no need to restrict domestic water consumption in these areas yet some people think there is a big environmental gain by doing so.
_________________________
Visit - http://www.ozbc.net - For Information on Australian Backcountry Skiing
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#733627 - 21/07/09 02:16 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Snow Blowey]
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Hacski
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We've had water shaving shower heads since 1992 so much so I hate the full on old fashioned ones, and dual flush for about as long. As for appliances our Miele front loading washing machine will wash small loads using less water than a hand wash in the tub. Water saved inside means I don't feel so guilty topping up the pool in summer.
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#733662 - 21/07/09 02:50 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Hacski]
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Crystal
I so have my ski legs now ...and an ass like steel
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what !!!!! I'm going to report you to the water police 
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#733766 - 21/07/09 04:16 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Crystal]
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TC
Old and Crusty ;)
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I would have thought that industry used the lions share of water
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#733809 - 21/07/09 04:54 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: TC]
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Crystal
I so have my ski legs now ...and an ass like steel
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NO...agriculture does.
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#733818 - 21/07/09 05:03 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Crystal]
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TC
Old and Crusty ;)
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so all the fuss about personal consumption is a fraud
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#733908 - 21/07/09 06:09 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: TC]
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Snow Blowey
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Industry in the city and agriculture in other areas.
Although the sun is probably the biggest consumer of all.
_________________________
Visit - http://www.ozbc.net - For Information on Australian Backcountry Skiing
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#734732 - 22/07/09 01:26 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Snow Blowey]
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Crystal
I so have my ski legs now ...and an ass like steel
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When you are talking Australia as a whole.... it is Agricultre by a LONG shot
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#734747 - 22/07/09 01:33 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Crystal]
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Crystal
I so have my ski legs now ...and an ass like steel
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okay some numbers...... old but usefull, Water consumption for Aus
reference Australian Bureau of Statistics Water Account Australian 2004-05
Mining 3%
Manufacturing 3%
Electricity and gas 6%
Water supply (sewage and drainage)8%
Household 8%
other 2%
Agriculture 70%
So outside Agriculture.....Househilds are the biggest users when you comine household and sewage/drainage 16%...think about this next time you flush just for a pee
Edited by Crystal (22/07/09 01:34 pm)
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#734751 - 22/07/09 01:35 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Crystal]
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Snow Blowey
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When you are talking Australia as a whole.... it is Agricultre by a LONG shot
But agriculture doesn't use much water out of the major cities catchments - cetainly not any irrigation. And its conditions in these catchments that seem to be dictating water policy. (eg. subsidies for more water efficient appliances, water restrictions etc..).
Agriculture stops using water when there is none available - industry does not.
There are only water shortages in a few regional towns that rely on surface water. Plenty of farmhouses that rely on tank water are struggling - but they are separate systems that are irrelevant to the whole water saving debate.
_________________________
Visit - http://www.ozbc.net - For Information on Australian Backcountry Skiing
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#734914 - 22/07/09 02:43 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Snow Blowey]
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Crystal
I so have my ski legs now ...and an ass like steel
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I can tell you FACT, industry and mining does stop when there is no water. They are each only 3% of total water consumers anyway.
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#736065 - 23/07/09 11:40 am
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Crystal]
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Heli
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Since the open irrigation channels in Victoria are touted to lose 90% through evaporation, I take it that the agricultural use will either drop significantly or become heaps more efficient, when the channel piping is completed next year?
I know that's the premise upon which the North-South pipeline is predicated, but it is a huge amount of water to be wasting 
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#736237 - 23/07/09 01:50 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Heli]
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Crystal
I so have my ski legs now ...and an ass like steel
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yeah true..... it's an amazing amount when there are products commercialy available that can reduce water evaporation by up to 90%.
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#736276 - 23/07/09 02:21 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: trappers]
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Majikthise
avi-giraffe rangler
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Before a little person came into my life, I think my wife and I would have been lucky to use more than 150l a day. With a little person the amount of washing, dish washing triples (at least) plus I dunno how much water a bath as opposed to a shower uses, but it takes at least 5min to fill to the right level!
If only you could reuse easily what comes out of the buggers
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zootlewurdle!
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#737380 - 24/07/09 04:21 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Majikthise]
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sly_karma
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Someone educate me here. If I flush 5L every time I take a whizz, it gets treated and ends up back in the river system it came from and thence onto the next treatment plant and user group. How does it make any difference if I only flush with 2L of water and send that on downstream?
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Procrastinate now!
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#737385 - 24/07/09 04:38 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: sly_karma]
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teckel
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If you live inland that may be the case. If you live in Sydney or Melbourne or other coastal city, it doesn't end up back in the system, but in the sea.
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Plug the Pipe
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#737388 - 24/07/09 04:44 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Heli]
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teckel
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Since the open irrigation channels in Victoria are touted to lose 90% through evaporation, I take it that the agricultural use will either drop significantly or become heaps more efficient, when the channel piping is completed next year? I know that's the premise upon which the North-South pipeline is predicated, but it is a huge amount of water to be wasting
Aha!! That's the premise. It was a figure dreamed up to please the project planners & pollies. It's a figure based on nothing other than someone's imagination. One of the reasons why this whole project should never has started in the first place.
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Plug the Pipe
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#737389 - 24/07/09 04:44 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: teckel]
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skidown
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Here we go..........
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#737669 - 24/07/09 11:29 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: skidown]
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sly_karma
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Teckel, surely you know the basics of the water cycle. That water evaporates and is dropped again as precip, all things being equal there's no problem there either. If I didn't use that 5L for a flush, it would flow past me anyway. It's a fairly closed system, but when we mess around with moving water from one catchment to another (ie, dams/tunnels/canals) that that cycle becomes interrupted. Widespread irrigation takes water out of surface systems and transfers it into subsurface ones, or vice versa, or allows major evaporation and uplift where none occurred previously, ands those are bigger problems again.
I have a hard time understanding the intense focus on consumer water 'saving' when agriculture is doing the damage. I didn't know about the 70% figure earlier posts have mentioned, but it doesn't surprise me.
_________________________
Procrastinate now!
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#740696 - 29/07/09 10:33 am
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: sly_karma]
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Snow Blowey
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I have a hard time understanding the intense focus on consumer water 'saving' when agriculture is doing the damage. I didn't know about the 70% figure earlier posts have mentioned, but it doesn't surprise me.
Consumer water saving initiatives are relevant in cities that rely on dams that are currently at low levels and have relatively low inflows. There is a genuine risk of running out of water in those cities.
The arguement against using water for agriculture is on environmental grounds only (except for a few inland towns that rely on surface water for domestic supply).
Trouble is city based politicians think domestic water sortages are an issue everywhere and impose token restrictions on regional centres that have an abundance of water.
Whilst people bag agriculture for drying out inland rivers i often wonder whether this is the case. Regulation of rivers defnitely effects flood regimes and this definitely effects health of flood dependant ecosystems, but the rivers themselves probably benefit from regulation. If we didn't have dams all along the divide i would guess most of our inland rivers would have been totally dry many years ago.
Your aguement about using water to flush toilets comes down to energy usage. It takes energy to pump and treat water and wastewater (sewage). The more you use the more energy is required. So then it becomes an enhanced greenhouse effect issue.
_________________________
Visit - http://www.ozbc.net - For Information on Australian Backcountry Skiing
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#740965 - 29/07/09 01:41 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Snow Blowey]
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Crystal
I so have my ski legs now ...and an ass like steel
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Your aguement about using water to flush toilets comes down to energy usage. It takes energy to pump and treat water and wastewater (sewage). The more you use the more energy is required. So then it becomes an enhanced greenhouse effect issue.
Snap...and don't forget the engery required to pump it to your toilet to start with
Edited by Crystal (29/07/09 01:42 pm)
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#742139 - 30/07/09 03:24 pm
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: Crystal]
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sly_karma
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Ha, I'm golden AND perfect then - BC uses 90% hydro power!!!
Having said that, there is a drought underway here and few realise it. Snowpacks have been below average two years in a row in most of the south, and lake and reservoir levels are quite low. The Okanagan is part of the Columbia system and so minimum flows must be maintained to satisfy the water treaty with the Americans. Okanagan Lake is quite low and levels are falling fast with the very warm dry weather. Water restrictions are already on but still you see orchards and a few vineyards running overhead sprays in the middle of the day. At 38°C most of it just evaporates on contact. Definitely some education needed.
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Procrastinate now!
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#745375 - 04/08/09 08:43 am
Re: Water Efficient Appliances - Have we been Conned?
[Re: sly_karma]
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Crystal
I so have my ski legs now ...and an ass like steel
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yup...
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